Re: US Self Defence nut (History derail)

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon May 14, 2012 12:53 am

Thumpalumpacus wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:We need a tap-dancing smiley.
Image
8-) Bookmarked.
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
Thumpalumpacus
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:13 pm
About me: Texan by birth, musician by nature, writer by avocation, freethinker by inclination.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Thumpalumpacus » Mon May 14, 2012 1:05 am

I'm sensing it will get a workout with mack. On my part.
these are things we think we know
these are feelings we might even share
these are thoughts we hide from ourselves
these are secrets we cannot lay bare.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Mon May 14, 2012 3:25 am

Thumpalumpacus wrote: You're wrong. You're wrong about Churchill's objection to appeasement being hindsight, you're wrong about British impotence in the 30s, and you're wrong in the fact that not only Americans, but Britons as well criticize appeasement as a failed policy, an opinion borne out by fifty million deaths.
That's your standard of argument, is it? "you're wrong" ?
Well, it's pathetic, but it is an improvement I suppose.
The less you say, the less stupid it sounds.
Thumpalumpacus wrote: Wait, now you're criticizing Churchill because he did not foresee the rise of Hitler twenty-five years before the fact?
No, you ASKED FOR A LINK where he cut arms spending when in office. If you don't want an answer, don't bother asking.

I think you SHOULD stick to posting smilies.
It's the safest option for you.
It seems to be the only way you can post something, without saying something embarrassingly silly.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Thumpalumpacus
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:13 pm
About me: Texan by birth, musician by nature, writer by avocation, freethinker by inclination.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Thumpalumpacus » Mon May 14, 2012 3:57 am

mistermack wrote:
Thumpalumpacus wrote: You're wrong. You're wrong about Churchill's objection to appeasement being hindsight, you're wrong about British impotence in the 30s, and you're wrong in the fact that not only Americans, but Britons as well criticize appeasement as a failed policy, an opinion borne out by fifty million deaths.
That's your standard of argument, is it? "you're wrong" ?
Well, it's pathetic, but it is an improvement I suppose.
The less you say, the less stupid it sounds.
I've already laid out his contemporaneous speeches. Your inability to read is not my problem.
No, you ASKED FOR A LINK where he cut arms spending when in office. If you don't want an answer, don't bother asking.
Well, I didn't expect I should have to specify that the link be relevant to the conversation. 1908! :funny: Perhaps next you'll chastise the Archduke for plotting the rise of OPEC with his wrong turn in Sarajevo.
I think you SHOULD stick to posting smilies.
It's the safest option for you.
It seems to be the only way you can post something, without saying something silly.
I'll let you know when I value your advice and opinion. I don't anticipate that happening any time soon.
these are things we think we know
these are feelings we might even share
these are thoughts we hide from ourselves
these are secrets we cannot lay bare.

User avatar
Warren Dew
Posts: 3781
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Warren Dew » Mon May 14, 2012 4:35 am

Thumpalumpacus wrote:You're wrong. You're wrong about Churchill's objection to appeasement being hindsight, you're wrong about British impotence in the 30s, and you're wrong in the fact that not only Americans, but Britons as well criticize appeasement as a failed policy, an opinion borne out by fifty million deaths.
I was somehow under the impression that the deaths happened only after appeasement was abandoned.

User avatar
Thumpalumpacus
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:13 pm
About me: Texan by birth, musician by nature, writer by avocation, freethinker by inclination.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Thumpalumpacus » Mon May 14, 2012 6:00 am

Warren Dew wrote:
Thumpalumpacus wrote:You're wrong. You're wrong about Churchill's objection to appeasement being hindsight, you're wrong about British impotence in the 30s, and you're wrong in the fact that not only Americans, but Britons as well criticize appeasement as a failed policy, an opinion borne out by fifty million deaths.
I was somehow under the impression that the deaths happened only after appeasement was abandoned.
That was my point. My apologies if I wasn't clear about it.
these are things we think we know
these are feelings we might even share
these are thoughts we hide from ourselves
these are secrets we cannot lay bare.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Mon May 14, 2012 9:31 am

Thumpalumpacus wrote:
Warren Dew wrote:
Thumpalumpacus wrote:You're wrong. You're wrong about Churchill's objection to appeasement being hindsight, you're wrong about British impotence in the 30s, and you're wrong in the fact that not only Americans, but Britons as well criticize appeasement as a failed policy, an opinion borne out by fifty million deaths.
I was somehow under the impression that the deaths happened only after appeasement was abandoned.
That was my point. My apologies if I wasn't clear about it.
:funny: :funny: :funny:
You're not clear about much at all, are you?
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

MrJonno
Posts: 3442
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:24 am
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by MrJonno » Mon May 14, 2012 11:12 am

Chamberlain policy was appeasement and massive rearnament, it was the only valid strategy at the time (appart from actually forming an alliance with Nazi Germany which is what the russians did)
When only criminals carry guns the police know exactly who to shoot!

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Mon May 14, 2012 11:30 am

MrJonno wrote:Chamberlain policy was appeasement and massive rearnament, it was the only valid strategy at the time (appart from actually forming an alliance with Nazi Germany which is what the russians did)
Quite right. Nearly any fool should see that.

In fact, Americans are of course entitled to criticise appeasement, but they should bear in mind that that's exactly what THEIR country did as well.
The only difference is that American appeasement lasted two years longer than British appeasement.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

MrJonno
Posts: 3442
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:24 am
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by MrJonno » Mon May 14, 2012 2:06 pm

You could also add there was significant pro-fascist anti-communist views on both sides of the Atlantic
When only criminals carry guns the police know exactly who to shoot!

User avatar
hadespussercats
I've come for your pants.
Posts: 18586
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:27 am
About me: Looks pretty good, coming out of the back of his neck like that.
Location: Gotham
Contact:

Derail:US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by hadespussercats » Mon May 14, 2012 3:44 pm

Heya! :{D
The green careening planet
spins blindly in the dark
so close to annihilation.

Listen. No one listens. Meow.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon May 14, 2012 4:13 pm

MrJonno wrote:You could also add there was significant pro-fascist anti-communist views on both sides of the Atlantic
Plus a lot of anti-fascist anti-communist views.
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
Thumpalumpacus
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:13 pm
About me: Texan by birth, musician by nature, writer by avocation, freethinker by inclination.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Thumpalumpacus » Tue May 15, 2012 12:27 am

mistermack wrote:You're not clear about much at all, are you?
... says the guy who thinks Churchill should have foreseen Adolf Hitler in 1908 and taken action accordingly.
these are things we think we know
these are feelings we might even share
these are thoughts we hide from ourselves
these are secrets we cannot lay bare.

User avatar
Thumpalumpacus
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:13 pm
About me: Texan by birth, musician by nature, writer by avocation, freethinker by inclination.
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Thumpalumpacus » Tue May 15, 2012 12:32 am

MrJonno wrote:You could also add there was significant pro-fascist anti-communist views on both sides of the Atlantic
Yeah, I don't think anyone was arguing otherwise. The point was that doing nothing was not really productive.

As to whether something should have been done in 1936, the balance of strength on the two sides doesn't seem nearly so bad as is being portrayed. Not to mention the fact that the nascent Wehrmacht armored doctrine had not yet been made possible by the necessary equipment and operational expertise.

These problems hadn't even been ironed out two years later when Austria was swallowed up.
these are things we think we know
these are feelings we might even share
these are thoughts we hide from ourselves
these are secrets we cannot lay bare.

MrJonno
Posts: 3442
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:24 am
Contact:

Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by MrJonno » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:40 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
MrJonno wrote:You could also add there was significant pro-fascist anti-communist views on both sides of the Atlantic
Plus a lot of anti-fascist anti-communist views.
Not an awful lot, people were either anti fascist pro communist or pro fascist anti communism. They simply werent that many people who were neutral through many were indifferent.

You had the Nazi sympathisers of Mosley in the UK and Lindenburg in the US wew good examples, those who volunteered to aid the Republicans in Spain were definitely motivated by socialism/communism even if it wasnt neccessary to support Stalin
When only criminals carry guns the police know exactly who to shoot!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest