Violence and civilisation

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pErvinalia
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:57 am

Then there's this:
Why High Earners Work Longer Hours

During most of the 1900s, the hours of work declined for most American men. But around 1970, the share of employed men regularly working more than 50 hours per week began to increase. In fact, the share of employed, 25-to-64-year-old men who usually work 50 or more hours per week on their main job rose from 14.7 percent in 1980 to 18.5 percent in 2001.

This shift was especially pronounced among highly educated, high-wage, salaried, and older men. For college-educated men, the proportion working 50 hours or more climbed from 22.2 percent to 30.5 percent in these two decades. Between 1979 and 2002, the frequency of long work hours increased by 14.4 percentage points among the top quintile of wage earners, but fell by 6.7 percentage points in the lowest quintile. There was no increase at all in work hours among high-school dropouts.

As a result, there has been a reversal in the relationship between wages and hours. In 1983, the most poorly paid 20 percent of workers were more likely to put in long work hours than the top paid 20 percent. By 2002, the best-paid 20 percent were twice as likely to work long hours as the bottom 20 percent. In other words, the prosperous are more likely to be at work more than those earning little. This trend has been a puzzle for some economists.

In The Expanding Workweek? Understanding Trends in Long Work Hours Among U.S. Men, 1979-2004 (NBER Working Paper No. 11895), Peter Kuhn and Fernando Lozano attempt to explain why the century-long trend of shrinking work hours -- probably a reflection of rising prosperity -- reversed around 1970, essentially for the first time except during World War II. The authors also try to reconcile the trend towards longer workweeks for full-time workers with the fact of overall declining participation of men in the labor force. However, as Kuhn and Lozano note, highly educated men were not likely to leave the work force, but rather were much more likely to work longer hours; while high-school dropouts were more often leaving the work force or, if still at a job, working fewer hours.

After testing various possible causes for these trends, Kuhn and Lozano conclude that many salaried men work longer because of an increase in "marginal incentives" to supply hours beyond the standard 40 per week. These workers don't immediately get overtime pay for the "extra" hours. But over a longer time period, they get a substantial reward in the possibility of earning a bonus or a raise within their current position, or they may win a promotion to a better job, or simply signal to the labor market that they are productive and ambitious and thus suitable for a better job in another firm. Alternatively, the longer hours may enable them to acquire extra skills or to establish networks and contacts that could be rewarded in their current firm or in another one. In addition, the long hours may enhance their prospect of keeping their current job if the firm decides to lay off workers in the future. Studies suggest that perceived job insecurity has risen substantially among highly educated workers.

.....

Rather, the authors note, U.S. firms have changed their methods of compensation for skilled, salaried workers over the past quarter century. It could be that longer-than-normal workweeks help firms to produce better products and services in "winner-take-all" type of markets
http://www.nber.org/digest/jul06/w11895.html

This would seem to give a clearer picture of what is going on. Although, I'm honestly surprised to find that the lowest 20% work less hours than in 1990. But rising underemployment would account for some of this.
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by JimC » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:15 am

rEvolutionist wrote:Inequality and poverty is definitely increasing. Surely you don't need me to provide stats on that?
Well, it depends whereabouts you are looking at. I would indeed be interested in the stats for Australia. For inequality, that should not be too hard; I would not be surprised by a small increase in income inequality, mainly driven by those who have become obscenely rich via the mining boom. For poverty, it's tricky. It's possible that the number of people in really desperate straights may have increased (which is damning if so) while the economic circumstances of the majority have not greatly changed.

Certainly the end of the mining boom will mean a significant reduction in economic growth, with flow-on effects to employment rates. I certainly would like us to move in a direction towards less income disparity and more help for the lower end of the bell curve, by alterations to government priorities and tax scales. Perhaps one term of conservative rule will be enough to see a push in that direction from the majority...

However, whatever the economic fluctuations of the post war period, there are still many areas of our social life that show clear trends away from violent punishment and repression by the state, as well as inter-personal violence decreasing, enough for it to be a significant phenomenon. No latter-day Alan Turing is going to be arrested and subsequently commit suicide because of his gender preference. To say that such repression has simply been replaced by more subtle, covert forms requires solid evidence.
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by JimC » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:17 am

Over my working life as a teacher, I don't think there have been any steady increases in the hours per week I need to put in. The face to face hours have fallen a little; perhaps the preparation has increased a little, but overall, pretty much the same, as far as I can tell...
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:35 am

An anecdote of 1 is still an anecdote, Jim.. ;)
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:45 am

JimC wrote: Certainly the end of the mining boom will mean a significant reduction in economic growth, with flow-on effects to employment rates. I certainly would like us to move in a direction towards less income disparity and more help for the lower end of the bell curve, by alterations to government priorities and tax scales. Perhaps one term of conservative rule will be enough to see a push in that direction from the majority...
The thing is, it clearly won't, Jim. What Abbott is doing is just a continuation of what Howard did, which is just a continuation of what Thatcher did, but he is arguably going about it in a smarter way. He's going to smash us early on, and get all the bad shit out of the way early, in the hope (actually the full realisation) that we will forget by the time it comes to the election. And the "left wing" governments between these conservative governments have a similar agenda, if a little less blatant and with a spattering of social concern and policy. There's a clear trend, Jim. We live in a neoliberal world. That's a world dominated by corporations and the huge power that accumulated wealth wields over society and our political systems. People who think that this is just going to magically reverse, because probably 10% are awake enough to see these problems, are kidding themselves.
However, whatever the economic fluctuations of the post war period, there are still many areas of our social life that show clear trends away from violent punishment and repression by the state, as well as inter-personal violence decreasing, enough for it to be a significant phenomenon. No latter-day Alan Turing is going to be arrested and subsequently commit suicide because of his gender preference.
If the figures are correct, which I'm yet to be convinced of, then I agree with that.
To say that such repression has simply been replaced by more subtle, covert forms requires solid evidence.
Well the evidence is there. The more affluent segments of society are working harder than ever before in the modern era, happiness is decreasing, inequality and poverty are increasing, job security is decreasing, and the one biggie I didn't mention in my last list (but surely mentioned it earlier in the thread) personal debt is at it's highest ever levels in the neoliberal west. Psychologically we are deluded. There's a host of stats that are widely available concerning the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" status. That book I mention is full of stats and reasoning for these phenomenon. When one is in hock up to their neck, in a less secure job than was previously the norm, and undergoing huge psychological pressure to consume consume consume, that is not the state of a free person. It's undoubtedly better than a situation where you face violence from the state, or your community, but it's still nonetheless the state of a metaphorically shackled person. And considering violence, it will be interesting to see how this pans out over the coming years. I'd love to see some stats on youth violence. It's my understanding youth violence is massively in excess of what it was in previous generations. Will this flow through to adulthood? I don't know. But we might need to watch this space. Same with growing inequality. That's always been a recipe for crime/revolution.
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by Blind groper » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:12 pm

According to Prof. Stephen Pinker in his book on the history of violence, youth violence continues to decrease. It reached a peak between the late 1960's, and started to fall in the early 1990's, and continues to fall.

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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by JimC » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:53 pm

Blind groper wrote:According to Prof. Stephen Pinker in his book on the history of violence, youth violence continues to decrease. It reached a peak between the late 1960's, and started to fall in the early 1990's, and continues to fall.
Yes. We certainly have some alcohol fuelled brawls at night in Melbourne, though the cops are usually on top of it fairly quickly. If you took your world view from watching commercial news and current affairs programs, the youth of Melbourne do nothing but drink, take drugs, fight and fuck...

You get a media effect, where the reportage of actually reasonably rare events fuels a "the world is ending" mentality in people who don't have access to the real data. A very worthwhile project for someone one would be to have very easy to understand graphs and statistics about world and local trends, verified by appropriate bodies, available at the click of a mouse. (I know the figures are out there, on a variety of sites, but they need to be as easily accessible as possible)
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by FBM » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:24 am

Ah, but the world IS ending. In a few billion years, we'll all be toast~! :panic:
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by Blind groper » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 am

Ah, but by the time the world ends, I plan to be elsewhere.

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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by laklak » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:47 am

Maybe they're high wage earners because they're working 50+ hours a week, and the bottom people are low earners because they're working less? Just a thought...
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by JimC » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:12 am

laklak wrote:Maybe they're high wage earners because they're working 50+ hours a week, and the bottom people are low earners because they're working less? Just a thought...
In Oz, that is not always the case. Sure, you get self-employed small businessmen who certainly can get out what they put in, and fair enough. And you'll always have those whose incomes are low because they prefer to cruise with the minimum effort.

However, you also have many who are working hard in standard factory jobs, getting a moderate wage, but always in danger of being made redundant by the vagaries of the global economy. In their 50s, good at the job they do, but it is often hard to find another job...

Then you have the parasites who "earn" big bucks by dint of various semi-shady financial manipulations that add nothing to the productivity of the nation...
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:54 am

laklak wrote:Maybe they're high wage earners because they're working 50+ hours a week, and the bottom people are low earners because they're working less? Just a thought...
Maybe, maybe not. But that's not the point. The point is that people are working more to meet their consumerist desires, but aren't winding up happier because of it.
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by JimC » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:13 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
laklak wrote:Maybe they're high wage earners because they're working 50+ hours a week, and the bottom people are low earners because they're working less? Just a thought...
Maybe, maybe not. But that's not the point. The point is that people are working more to meet their consumerist desires, but aren't winding up happier because of it.
High quality gin isn't a consumerist desire, but an aesthetic necessity... :levi:
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by rainbow » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:11 am

JimC wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
laklak wrote:Maybe they're high wage earners because they're working 50+ hours a week, and the bottom people are low earners because they're working less? Just a thought...
Maybe, maybe not. But that's not the point. The point is that people are working more to meet their consumerist desires, but aren't winding up happier because of it.
High quality gin isn't a consumerist desire, but an aesthetic necessity... :levi:
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Re: Violence and civilisation

Post by Audley Strange » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:12 pm

rainbow wrote:
JimC wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
laklak wrote:Maybe they're high wage earners because they're working 50+ hours a week, and the bottom people are low earners because they're working less? Just a thought...
Maybe, maybe not. But that's not the point. The point is that people are working more to meet their consumerist desires, but aren't winding up happier because of it.
High quality gin isn't a consumerist desire, but an aesthetic necessity... :levi:
I blame the Marketing people.
I blame desire.
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