Burma to allow Spitfire excavations

[klr]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing41.html

Burma has signed a deal with a British aviation enthusiast to allow the excavation of dozens of vintage Spitfire fighter planes that have been buried since the second World War.

The British embassy said the agreement was reached after discussions between Burmese president Thein Sein and British prime minister David Cameron during his visit to Burma earlier this year.

Aviation enthusiast David Cundall discovered the locations of the aircraft after years of searching. The Spitfires are believed to be in good condition, since they were reportedly packed in crates and hidden by British forces to keep them out of the hands of invading Japanese. Excavations are due to begin by the end of the month.

Htoo Htoo, managing director of Mr Cundall’s Burma partner company, said: “It took 16 years for Mr Cundall to locate the planes buried in crates. We estimate that there are at least 60 Spitfires buried and they are in good condition.

“This will be the largest number of Spitfires in the world,” he said. “We want to let people see those historic fighters, and the excavation of these fighter planes will further strengthen relations [between Burma and the UK].”

The British embassy described the agreement as a chance to work with Burma’s new reformist government “in uncovering, restoring, displaying these fighter planes”.

“We hope that many of them will be gracing the skies of Britain and as discussed, some will be displayed here in Burma,” said an embassy spokesman.

Burma has in the past year turned away from many of the repressive policies of the previous military government and patched up relations with western nations that had previously shunned it.

Mr Cundall’s quest to find the aircraft involved 12 trips to Burma and more than £130,000 (€160,000).

Up to 60 Spitfires? And thy are likely to be "earlier" versions (no later than the Mark V), not the later versions that there are already well represented amongst surviving aircraft.

Who knows, some of them might even fly again.

[FBM]

In crates? Wow. That would be quite a find. Glad to see that Burma is showing signs of pulling its collective head out of its ass and trying to change its pariah status by doing something other than oppressing its own people.

[Wumbologist]

Cool story, but they ain't no Hellcat.

[rasetsu]

Cool story, but they ain't no Hellcat.

But then, the hellcat ain't no zero....

[klr]

Meh. The Zero would go to pieces if you looked at it the wrong way.

[Wumbologist]

Cool story, but they ain't no Hellcat.

But then, the hellcat ain't no zero....

No it isn't... because it was designed specifically to be a Zero-killer, at task at which it excelled.

[rasetsu]

No it isn't... because it was designed specifically to be a Zero-killer, at task at which it excelled.

"Bring it."


("The F6F was superior to the A6M in every category except slow speed turns and cockpit visibility. When properly flown the Hellcat was far superior to the Zero." )


(I was also under the impression that the zero retained some advantages in terms of overall energy and climb energy, but perhaps I was misinformed.)

[Wumbologist]

No it isn't... because it was designed specifically to be a Zero-killer, at task at which it excelled.

"Bring it."

The Hellcat certainly brought it, with 5,163 kills in the Pacific Theater earning it a 19:1 kill ratio.

[rasetsu]

No it isn't... because it was designed specifically to be a Zero-killer, at task at which it excelled.

"Bring it."

The Hellcat certainly brought it, with 5,163 kills in the Pacific Theater earning it a 19:1 kill ratio.

The ratio against the zero was a mere 13:1. God, I can't trust anything you say!

"The F6F first saw combat on August 31, 1943, during an attack on Marcus Island."

"In early combat operations, the Zero gained a legendary reputation as a dogfighter, achieving the outstanding kill ratio of 12 to 1, but by mid-1942 a combination of new tactics and the introduction of better equipment enabled the Allied pilots to engage the Zero on more equal terms."

[klr]

The Hellcat wouldn't have been superior to the Zero in every material aspect. Aircraft design is always a series of trade-offs. As long as Hellcat pilots didn't get into situations where the Zero was still better, the outcome would almost always go to the USA.

[rasetsu]

The Hellcat wouldn't have been superior to the Zero in every material aspect. Aircraft design is always a series of trade-offs. As long as Hellcat pilots didn't get into situations where the Zero was still better, the outcome would almost always go to the USA.

So... where the hellcat had the advantage... the hellcat had the advantage?

Oh tell me more, Sun Tzu...

[klr]

The Hellcat wouldn't have been superior to the Zero in every material aspect. Aircraft design is always a series of trade-offs. As long as Hellcat pilots didn't get into situations where the Zero was still better, the outcome would almost always go to the USA.

So... where the hellcat had the advantage... the hellcat had the advantage?

Oh tell me more, Sun Tzu...

No, the point is that the US designers didn't set out to produce an aircraft that was necessarily better than the Zero in those areas where the Zero was already better than the Wildcat.

The Wildcat did have some advantages over the Zero. Wildcats were able to absorb a tremendous amount of damage compared to the Zero, and had better armament, .50 caliber machine guns. The F4F was also much faster in a dive than the Zero, an advantage frequently used by Wildcat pilots to elude attacking Zeros. The F6F Hellcat was designed to enhance the favorable aspects of the F4F while having a much higher top speed and greater range, allowing it to outperform the Zero."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6 ... evelopment

That was certainly "good enough", but even so, the successor the the Hellcat - the Bearcat - would have emphasised greater manoeuvrability, although it was also faster and climbed more quickly.

[rasetsu]

The Hellcat wouldn't have been superior to the Zero in every material aspect. Aircraft design is always a series of trade-offs. As long as Hellcat pilots didn't get into situations where the Zero was still better, the outcome would almost always go to the USA.

So... where the hellcat had the advantage... the hellcat had the advantage?

Oh tell me more, Sun Tzu...

No, the point is that the US designers didn't set out to produce an aircraft that was necessarily better than the Zero in those areas where the Zero was already better than the Wildcat.

The Wildcat did have some advantages over the Zero. Wildcats were able to absorb a tremendous amount of damage compared to the Zero, and had better armament, .50 caliber machine guns. The F4F was also much faster in a dive than the Zero, an advantage frequently used by Wildcat pilots to elude attacking Zeros. The F6F Hellcat was designed to enhance the favorable aspects of the F4F while having a much higher top speed and greater range, allowing it to outperform the Zero."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6 ... evelopment

That was certainly "good enough", but even so, the successor the the Hellcat - the Bearcat - would have emphasised greater manoeuvrability, although it was also faster and climbed more quickly.

So.... with each iteration of technological design... the technological design got better?



Oh, please tell me more about how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes...

[Wumbologist]

The ratio against the zero was a mere 13:1. God, I can't trust anything you say!

Yes, specifically against the Zero, the best fighter the Japanese had to offer, the kill ratio was only 13 to 1 in favor of the Hellcat.

In early combat operations, the Zero gained a legendary reputation as a dogfighter, achieving the outstanding kill ratio of 12 to 1, but by mid-1942 a combination of new tactics and the introduction of better equipment enabled the Allied pilots to engage the Zero on more equal terms."

Yeah... the Zero was fine before the Hellcat was introduced to knock it out of the sky.

[Wumbologist]

The Hellcat wouldn't have been superior to the Zero in every material aspect. Aircraft design is always a series of trade-offs. As long as Hellcat pilots didn't get into situations where the Zero was still better, the outcome would almost always go to the USA.

So... where the hellcat had the advantage... the hellcat had the advantage?

Oh tell me more, Sun Tzu...

Against the Zero, the Hellcat apparently had 13 advantages for every one the Zero had.