Merca.

[piscator]

I said .375. As in .375 H&H Magnum. As in 300-gr Barnes bonded bullet @ 2650fps for 4600lbs of energy @ 100 yards. Not a fucking revolver.

Don't get defensive. So, you like huge calibers. That's nice. I'm not into big calibers generally, due to the cost of ammo.

I live and hunt in Alaska. A moose weighs 1000 lbs (some over twice that) and 2 men can't roll his carcass over without a come-along. Moreover, it's gonna take several trips to packframe the meat out to the truck. You never know what's gonna take possession of your moose in the 2 or 3 days it takes to pack moose meat a mile to the road or atv trail.
Grizzlies can smell moose blood for miles and miles, and they will come running for 1000 lbs of free meat, and jealously guard the carcass.
My preference for large calibers is not an aesthetic or whimsical choice. It's responsible and practical.

A 77-gr bullet for deer? You don't know Jack Shit about hunting, do you? Next time I see a deer limping from a shot off foot, I'll think of you.

I've never wounded and let get away anything I've ever hunted. I've dropped a deer with a 55gr so this idea that it's not enough to hunt with is pure bullshit.

So you shot at a deer with a fucking .22? That's a hunting violation in my state, and damned animal cruelty. So I'm sure you used some sort of "Accelerator" round on a LR cartridge, even though they're made to splatter. That's just merely disgusting, and wanton waste because you stand about an 80% chance of not recovering the animal.
And a hunter who has never lost an animal he's shot at hasn't been doing it for very long. Please don't try to make out like you're so damn good that it's not an issue. You'll just come across as a bullshitter, in over his head.

I'd like to be able to use it for something besides something to shoot at the range while my good barrels cool. I sight in with a cold barrel so my first shot counts.

Why would you only be able to use it at the range? Barrels cooling? Huh? For what? Why would they be so hot in the first place?

It's just physics. Cold barrels have a different point of bullet impact than warm barrels. It's significant beyond 200 yards. You didn't know that? Run 3 magnum rounds through a barrel with a hunting taper in 3 minutes. Tell me it's not warm. A warm barrel is shaped differently than a cold barrel due to expansion of the metal. This affects where the bullet will impact at a given yardage.

Unless you're Seth, hunting is not some sort of firefight where lions and elk and buffalo [and hogs] come charging out of the brush by the hundreds and one goes through hundreds of rounds before he has to pull his Kbar to finish the slaughter. It takes a long time and usually a lot of effort to put oneself in a position to take 1 good shot. That's the demanding nature of the beast, and one of the many parts of the game that effete little urban fops just don't comprehend. They're all about train schedules, high fashion, and which side of the street it's legal to park on though. That's practical and relevant for them. Sighting in with a cold barrel is practical and relevant for good hunters who place bullets.

I have a .308 my Dad built. Pre-64 action. Shilen barrel. Hand checkered full international stock in Turkish walnut. Unertl scope. Double set trigger. I'd have been pissed if he left me a folding Bic lighter with a laser rail.

My dad left me some stuff too. Of course, no ARs for obvious reasons. Serious collector value is nice, but your mostly talking about personal preference, which is subjective opinion and a very much "to each his own" kind of thing.

My dad was a craftsman who spent months building that rifle. He spent weeks redoing the stock until it was Right. He passed on object lessons to me. "Don't settle for less than the best you're capable of - "Good enough" is not good enough", "If at first you don't succeed...", "Most things worth doing take a lot of work", "One can be justifiably proud of something he works hard to achieve", "Our works can outlive us", "Good things not only last longer, they provide better service while they're in use", "Other people may know more than you about important things. There's no shame in asking for help to do something the best way" "Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither is character." ... That sort of thing.

"To each his own"? I guess so... But the rifle has no monetary value to other than insurers because it'll never be sold.

[laklak]

Meh, .223 or 5.56 is a good general purpose round down here in the sub-tropics. The only things we have that weigh 1000 pounds live in a zoo or belong to a farmer. White tails average between 90 and 120 pounds, there are plenty of them around. Key deer are tiny, a big buck might go 70 pounds, but they're critically endangered and can't be hunted. Our black bears are usually around 200-250 pounds, males can get bigger, but it's illegal to hunt them at any time of year. The only other things you're going to shoot with a rifle are coyotes, armadillos and other varmints, all of which a .223 or even .22 LR is plenty for. Turkeys, duck, geese et. al. you take on a shotgun anyway. I don't have an AR, but I do enjoy my Mini 14. It's good out to 300 yards or so with the new Nikon scope on it, more than I need. I've got larger calibers up in the NC mountains, but I don't hunt much any more, just too much damn work. Fishing is the best use of a gentleman's free time.

[piscator]

People hunt whitetails back east with .223 all the time.

They're assholes with no respect for the animals. Probably don't own anything but BPAGs. Probably takes a half dozen of them half a day to kill a deer after the first shot. Then they haggle it up and come home to suburbia, drunk, with chunks of bloody neck meat and inflated egos. Their wives are totally impressed, but wont let them cook it in the house. Good for them.

[laklak]

People hunt whitetails back east with .223 all the time.

They're assholes with no respect for the animals. Probably don't own anything but BPAGs. Probably takes a half dozen of them half a day to kill a deer after the first shot. Then they haggle it up and come home to suburbia, drunk, with chunks of bloody neck meat and inflated egos. Their wives are totally impressed, but wont let them cook it in the house. Good for them.

Lol. To be fair, sometimes they manage to kill somebody's bull. A "two pointer".

[piscator]

Meh, .223 or 5.56 is a good general purpose round down here in the sub-tropics.

No it aint. A 30-30 is much better.
Calling a .223 a good general purpose round is like calling 10-lb Trilene a good general purpose fishing line for salt water. Only not, because you don't shoot an amberjack in the side with fishing line.

A 5.56 may make a fine armadillo gun though. If you're into purpose-built armadillo guns. With lasers.

[Seth]

Unless you're Seth, hunting is not some sort of firefight where lions and elk and buffalo [and hogs] come charging out of the brush by the hundreds and one goes through hundreds of rounds before he has to pull his Kbar to finish the slaughter.

I'm sorry, what? You hunt in Alaska, the kingdom of the Brown Bear, and you've never heard of one come charging out of the alders? Are you daft? I favor a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 SS as my usual bear gun, though I'd like it converted to .50 Alaskan.

Quick, handy, rust-resistant and gives you six reloads. The frontiersman's "assault rifle" of the age.

"To each his own"? I guess so... But the rifle has no monetary value to other than insurers because it'll never be sold.

You gonna be buried with it?

[piscator]

Unless you're Seth, hunting is not some sort of firefight where lions and elk and buffalo [and hogs] come charging out of the brush by the hundreds and one goes through hundreds of rounds before he has to pull his Kbar to finish the slaughter.

I'm sorry, what? You hunt in Alaska, the kingdom of the Brown Bear, and you've never heard of one come charging out of the alders? Are you daft? I favor a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 SS as my usual bear gun, though I'd like it converted to .50 Alaskan.

Quick, handy, rust-resistant and gives you six reloads. The frontiersman's "assault rifle" of the age.

Bullshit. Pull your head out of the reloading magazines. Nonresidents can't hunt bears in Alaska without a guide. You should bring a .30-06 or .300 mag, something you can shoot, and do exactly what your guide tells you. It's his job to gun down the charging bruins, assuming he's fucked up bad enough to have to do something like that.
Alaskan guides laugh at big studs from Texas who get off the plane with super magnums, thinking they know it all. Most of them can barely walk up a hill to a glassing position, much less actually hunt effectively. Most are afraid of their big new expensive guns anyway...

Best to just shut up and do what you're told to the best of your ability. Then you might actually have a chance to brag over that rug you've been salivating for and paid $15k for a chance at.

"To each his own"? I guess so... But the rifle has no monetary value to other than insurers because it'll never be sold.

You gonna be buried with it?

Maybe. Maybe my kids or their kids will. It's an heirloom, not a Bic lighter.

[laklak]

Meh, .223 or 5.56 is a good general purpose round down here in the sub-tropics.

No it aint. A 30-30 is much better.
Calling a .223 a good general purpose round is like calling 10-lb Trilene a good general purpose fishing line for salt water. Only not, because you don't shoot an amberjack in the side with fishing line.

A 5.56 may make a fine armadillo gun though. If you're into purpose-built armadillo guns. With lasers.

So's 30 06, or 270 WSM, .380 or 7mm 08. My point is 5.56 isn't restricted just to weekend survivalists with painted faces playing Rambo in the woods. Plenty of people hunt with it, it's low recoil, fairly flat trajectory out to about 300 yards, higher muzzle velocity than either the 30 30 or 30 06, and about 2/3 to 3/4 of the ballistic energy of a 30 30. To be expected given the much lighter bullet. Unless you're hunting big animals it's sufficient if you're a reasonable shot. It's more than sufficient for home defense, if you're into that sort of thing. For that I'll just keep a shotgun handy, though I imagine there's some utility in a 30 round magazine if zombie hordes invade. It used to be cheap to shoot before everybody and their cousin had to have a tricked out Bushmaster to carry around in their jacked up F250.

Amberjack are bait. I use them to catch edible fish.

[piscator]

Meh, .223 or 5.56 is a good general purpose round down here in the sub-tropics.

No it aint. A 30-30 is much better.
Calling a .223 a good general purpose round is like calling 10-lb Trilene a good general purpose fishing line for salt water. Only not, because you don't shoot an amberjack in the side with fishing line.

A 5.56 may make a fine armadillo gun though. If you're into purpose-built armadillo guns. With lasers.

So's 30 06, or 270 WSM, .380 or 7mm 08. My point is 5.56 isn't restricted just to weekend survivalists with painted faces playing Rambo in the woods. Plenty of people hunt with it, it's low recoil, fairly flat trajectory out to about 300 yards, higher muzzle velocity than either the 30 30 or 30 06, and about 2/3 to 3/4 of the ballistic energy of a 30 30. To be expected given the much lighter bullet. Unless you're hunting big animals it's sufficient if you're a reasonable shot. It's more than sufficient for home defense, if you're into that sort of thing. For that I'll just keep a shotgun handy, though I imagine there's some utility in a 30 round magazine if zombie hordes invade. It used to be cheap to shoot before everybody and their cousin had to have a tricked out Bushmaster to carry around in their jacked up F250.

Amberjack are bait. I use them to catch edible fish.

Most people in Fla go to Georgia or Alabama or Mississippi to hunt deer. And they do it mostly with a shotgun as dogs run them by. Florida hunting sucks balls compared to the neighboring states to the north. It's buggy. It's hot. And if you don't have access to jealously guarded private land in the Panhandle, you're sucking hind tit on public swampland or on a carefully controlled permit hunt on a military base somewhere else.

I imagine a .223 might be just fine for a Fla gun to prop up against a bedroom wall or carry around in a gunrack in case you're looking for a more sporting way to murder "Possum on the half shell" than the family sedan.
You fish in Florida to make meat. There's much better hunting in New York (and better fishing in Louisiana). Bring a bolt action rifle in a decent caliber when you hunt big game. (Unless it's turkeys. Then follow your state's game laws.)

[Seth]

Unless you're Seth, hunting is not some sort of firefight where lions and elk and buffalo [and hogs] come charging out of the brush by the hundreds and one goes through hundreds of rounds before he has to pull his Kbar to finish the slaughter.

I'm sorry, what? You hunt in Alaska, the kingdom of the Brown Bear, and you've never heard of one come charging out of the alders? Are you daft? I favor a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 SS as my usual bear gun, though I'd like it converted to .50 Alaskan.

Quick, handy, rust-resistant and gives you six reloads. The frontiersman's "assault rifle" of the age.

Bullshit. Pull your head out of the reloading magazines. Nonresidents can't hunt bears in Alaska without a guide.

Who said anything about hunting them?

You should bring a .30-06 or .300 mag, something you can shoot, and do exactly what your guide tells you. It's his job to gun down the charging bruins, assuming he's fucked up bad enough to have to do something like that.

If I'm hunting them that's exactly what I do.

I just said "my bear gun." That's the one that I can carry on the motorcycle or in the car, even through Canada (the fuckwits) that's lightweight, easy to handle and will do the job. And I shoot it quite well actually, as the bruises on my shoulder attested to after numerous range sessions.

I always wanted to get a Searcy double rifle in .450 Rigby or .375 H&H, but the 12 grand for a used one was a bit too steep. I almost bought one when I thought I'd won a 2 week safari in Namibia at the NRA convention a couple of years ago. I was the only ticket-buyer in the high-roller $500 per giveaway. I stood there to make sure until it was time to be seated for dinner, but when the "drawing" came up, Chris Cox of the NRA-ILA "won" the prize, and then re-donated it to be auctioned at the sportsman's auction the next night. It was a total fix. I found out that they do this all the time if they don't get enough bidders/buyers on the high-ticket items. They send in a shill from the organization and he "wins" it.

Pretty low tactics and I complained to Wayne LaPierre himself, and they promised to refund my $500 bux but never did.

Alaskan guides laugh at big studs from Texas who get off the plane with super magnums, thinking they know it all. Most of them can barely walk up a hill to a glassing position, much less actually hunt effectively. Most are afraid of their big new expensive guns anyway...

It's all about bullet placement. But bullet placement when hunting is different from bullet placement to avoid becoming bear shit, and in that situation I'll put as many rounds of whatever happens to be at hand in the bear till either it or I stop moving.

Best to just shut up and do what you're told to the best of your ability.

Couldn't agree more.

Then you might actually have a chance to brag over that rug you've been salivating for and paid $15k for a chance at.

Grandpa's aforesaid .30-06 Springfield took a world-record Kodiak bear sometime back in the 20s or 30s. My grandmother was the first white woman seen by one of the tribes on the Great Slave Lake, on the shores of which my mother was conceived in 1923.

I threw the rug (by Jonas Bros. in Denver) away when I moved from the ranch because it had gotten far too decrepit to bother keeping, but I did cut off the claws and kept them. Same with his lion.

"To each his own"? I guess so... But the rifle has no monetary value to other than insurers because it'll never be sold.

You gonna be buried with it?

Maybe. Maybe my kids or their kids will. It's an heirloom, not a Bic lighter.

Or maybe they'll pawn it for a bottle of Thunderbird...

[Collector1337]

I found a video of piscator hunting with his big bore bolt actions.

[mistermack]

Let's not exaggerate the difficulty of hunting.

Bears are as easy to kill as farm animals. You just fill a bait barrel with the most smelly bait you can make, and design it so that it can get a little bit out of it. Get it used to visiting the bait spot.
Then get up in your custom-made tree platform, and wait till the bear strolls up, and shoot it from complete safety from your platform.
It's not even "sport", it's pathetic wankers killing wildlife for fun.

I grew out of that, when I was thirteen.

[Seth]

Let's not exaggerate the difficulty of hunting.

Bears are as easy to kill as farm animals. You just fill a bait barrel with the most smelly bait you can make, and design it so that it can get a little bit out of it. Get it used to visiting the bait spot.
Then get up in your custom-made tree platform, and wait till the bear strolls up, and shoot it from complete safety from your platform.
It's not even "sport", it's pathetic wankers killing wildlife for fun.

I grew out of that, when I was thirteen.

Depends on where you are. Baiting is only legal in a few states, and definitely not Alaska, and up in the tundra there are no tree stands.

I forget where I read the story, but I recall hearing about the guide and hunter who hike up to a knob and take a position on the downslope looking over the valley for bears. They are there for some time when the hunter hears something behind him and turns around to see a huge bear standing on top of the knob looking down at the both of them...about 20 feet away.

Busting through the alders in Alaska puts you on pretty equal footing with a bear. Which is why you want to avoid doing so if possible.

And in the coastal forests the vegetation can be dense enough that it's entirely possible to surprise a bear. My friend Col. Bob Brown was bear hunting last year on the coast when he stepped wrong and broke his leg. Not a good thing to do in bear country at any time, but it's a very good illustrating why you don't want to go bear hunting without a partner.

So yeah, there's tree-stand hunting, which I agree isn't any fun and isn't very fair and there's actual hunting. But to try to characterize all bear hunting as stand/bait hunting is intellectually dishonest.

[rainbow]

Yay for Merca!
Great place, nice people who never even shot at me.

[Seth]

Yay for Merca!
Great place, nice people who never even shot at me.

Thanks! Hope you had a good time.

Oh, they say you never hear the one that kills you....