The case against guns

[Hermit]

Good luck with your next terrorist attack. Just bend over and kiss your ass goodby.

The closest we got was in the early 70's, when someone blew up a rubbish bin outside Sydney's Hilton Hotel while several Heads of Commonwealth were in the hotel. It killed three people and injured several others. The Ananda Marga group was blamed, the Hare Krishnas and even the police. Three individuals were eventually convicted and gaoled as a result, but released on appeal. The only witness fingering them turned out to be a lying schizophrenic psychotic. At any rate, I can't see how concealed weapons could have protected us from this random act of lunacy.

You know Jack shit about Australian history, society or culture. Not that ignorance about anything has ever stopped you from pompously pontificating about anything that takes your fancy, Dunning–Kruger poster-boy.

[Seth]

Good luck with your next terrorist attack. Just bend over and kiss your ass goodby.

The closest we got was in the early 70's, when someone blew up a rubbish bin outside Sydney's Hilton Hotel while several Heads of Commonwealth were in the hotel. It killed three people and injured several others. The Ananda Marga group was blamed, the Hare Krishnas and even the police. Three individuals were eventually convicted and gaoled as a result, but released on appeal. The only witness fingering them turned out to be a lying schizophrenic psychotic. At any rate, I can't see how concealed weapons could have protected us from this random act of lunacy.

But then there's the Port Arthur event, where it took more than eight fucking hours for armed police to respond, and during which time, from 2 pm to 9 pm the two utterly useless police officers in the area were hiding in a ditch, being driven back to cover every time they tried to move. The only person who even tried to do anything was a service station attendant who actually had a rifle and in theory could have stopped the massacre (far too late though, because the killer had already killed 32 people by then) but couldn't because he had to abide by the fuckwitted laws that prohibited him from keeping his rifle loaded: "The service station attendant told everyone to lie down and he locked the main doors. He grabbed his rifle, but by the time he could retrieve some ammunition and load his gun, Bryant was back in his car and gone."

Thirty five people killed (still a world record) and 23 injured by one man, over an eight-hour period (leaving out the 18 hour standoff to be charitable).

And only ONE of those poor sods even had a gun available and he wasn't able to act because fuckwits who think they know what they are talking about, but don't, forbade him from having his ammunition easily enough available to make him effective.

Poor bastards...killed by the stupidity of their own government, egged on by jackasses who don't understand the first thing about violent criminals or self-defense.

Now, just suppose that 50 percent (or 5 percent for that matter) of the people the killer encountered or who became aware of the situation (like the fucking POLICE OFFICERS) had been armed with concealed handguns, or better yet had Colt AR-15 SP-1 semi-automatic rifles and a few 30 round magazines full of ammunition situated for immediate use.

Do you think things might have turned out somewhat differently? I certainly do. After all, one Aussie tried, and was defeated by his own idiotic government. Imagine what a half-dozen competent citizens armed with the same rifle the killer had, and perhaps wearing body armor, could have done by way of distracting the killer from his spree.

You know Jack shit about Australian history, society or culture. Not that ignorance about anything has ever stopped you from pompously pontificating about anything that takes your fancy, Dunning–Kruger poster-boy.

Naughty boy. Shall I report you?

Anyway, evidently I know more about violent massacres in Australia than you do, so go fuck yourself.

I note that there's a list of 23 massacres in Australia since 1900 here, 19 of which have occurred since 1971, which indicates that it's not all that fucking peaceful down under.

[Hermit]

Good luck with your next terrorist attack. Just bend over and kiss your ass goodby.

The closest we got was in the early 70's, when someone blew up a rubbish bin outside Sydney's Hilton Hotel while several Heads of Commonwealth were in the hotel. It killed three people and injured several others. The Ananda Marga group was blamed, the Hare Krishnas and even the police. Three individuals were eventually convicted and gaoled as a result, but released on appeal. The only witness fingering them turned out to be a lying schizophrenic psychotic. At any rate, I can't see how concealed weapons could have protected us from this random act of lunacy.

But then there's the Port Arthur event

... which was the last massacre since the gun control legislation with accompanying buy-back scheme in 1996. Hmmmmmm...

Anyway, evidently I know more about violent massacres in Australia than you do, so go fuck yourself.

You are true to form again. No surprises there, Dunning–Kruger poster-boy.

Also, nice move of goal posts. Weren't you talking about terrorism attacks?

[Seth]

Seth

In your heavily armed USA, with 20 mass shootings per year, there has not been a single case where a mass shooter has been stopped by a civilian carrying a gun. By the police, yes. But not by a civilian.

So much for your ideas.

Wrong. Does the name Joel Myrick ring a bell?

And then there's the Texas Tower incident, where citizens armed with deer rifles were able to put Charles Whitman under fire, keeping him from shooting with impunity, while the Dallas police were helpless because they didn't have anything but shotguns and pistols. Oh, and by the way, a civilian, Allen Crum, went through the door to the parapet with three police officers to take down Whitman.

Then there's off-duty police officer Kenneth Hammond, who engaged the shooter at the Trolley Square mall in Ogden, Utah. He would not have been able to do so if he had not been carrying a concealed firearm off duty. Which demonstrates that concealed firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens are a net benefit to society.

And of course there's all the massacres that DID NOT happen because armed citizens put a stop to them before they started...like the two old farts who drew down on an armed robber trying to stick up a McDonalds and stopped the crime cold. Not to mention the between 80,000 and 2.5 million other crimes that were prevented, frustrated or stopped by armed citizens each year. There's no way of knowing which or how many of those would have turned into mass killings if they had not been stopped.

And that's just off the top of my head, but it proves that you're full of shit...again.

P.S. Oh, yeah, there's Jeanne Assam, the private citizen using a permitted concealed handgun who prevented a massacre at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs by advancing under fire and wounding the shooter, who then killed himself.

So, let me repeat: You're full of shit. As usual.

[Seth]

Good luck with your next terrorist attack. Just bend over and kiss your ass goodby.

The closest we got was in the early 70's, when someone blew up a rubbish bin outside Sydney's Hilton Hotel while several Heads of Commonwealth were in the hotel. It killed three people and injured several others. The Ananda Marga group was blamed, the Hare Krishnas and even the police. Three individuals were eventually convicted and gaoled as a result, but released on appeal. The only witness fingering them turned out to be a lying schizophrenic psychotic. At any rate, I can't see how concealed weapons could have protected us from this random act of lunacy.

But then there's the Port Arthur event

... which was the last massacre since the gun control legislation with accompanying buy-back scheme in 1996. Hmmmmmm...

It's just the last one until the next one, and the next one won't be any better because Aussies have decided to suck the cocks of their masters and have surrendered their essential rights for an illusion of safety.

Anyway, evidently I know more about violent massacres in Australia than you do, so go fuck yourself.

You are true to form again. No surprises there, Dunning–Kruger poster-boy.

Also, nice move of goal posts. Weren't you talking about terrorism attacks?

Every attack is a terror attack to the victims. The solution to all such attacks, whether perpetrated for political reasons or social reasons or simply out of insanity is the same: Somebody with a gun needs to be there to try to put a stop to it. The longer it takes for someone with a gun to take action to distract, dissuade or terminate the threat, the more people die.

When the only person in the room with a gun is the deranged killer, everybody else is pretty much fucked. Here's hoping you get to experience that someday, as an educational experience.

[Hermit]

...demonstrates that concealed firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens are a net benefit to society.

Yes, I can see that carrying a gun could sometimes be a good thing in a nation with a greater number of privately owned firearms than the number of its population. Well done, USA.

[rainbow]

Every attack is a terror attack to the victims. The solution to all such attacks, whether perpetrated for political reasons or social reasons or simply out of insanity is the same: Somebody with a gun needs to be there to try to put a stop to it. The longer it takes for someone with a gun to take action to distract, dissuade or terminate the threat, the more people die.

...or nobody has any guns, and nobody dies.

[Seth]

Every attack is a terror attack to the victims. The solution to all such attacks, whether perpetrated for political reasons or social reasons or simply out of insanity is the same: Somebody with a gun needs to be there to try to put a stop to it. The longer it takes for someone with a gun to take action to distract, dissuade or terminate the threat, the more people die.

...or nobody has any guns, and nobody dies.

Except that no one on earth can guarantee that nobody will have a gun, or a knife, or a broken bottle, or a club, or a rock.

[Seth]

...demonstrates that concealed firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens are a net benefit to society.

Yes, I can see that carrying a gun could sometimes be a good thing in a nation with a greater number of privately owned firearms than the number of its population. Well done, USA.

It's a good thing anywhere on earth. Moreover, absent a violent act requiring armed response, it's harmless.

[rainbow]

Every attack is a terror attack to the victims. The solution to all such attacks, whether perpetrated for political reasons or social reasons or simply out of insanity is the same: Somebody with a gun needs to be there to try to put a stop to it. The longer it takes for someone with a gun to take action to distract, dissuade or terminate the threat, the more people die.

...or nobody has any guns, and nobody dies.

Except that no one on earth can guarantee that nobody will have a gun, or a knife, or a broken bottle, or a club, or a rock.

Gosh well then why not allow anyone to possess tactical nuclear weapons if they fancy?

How about allowing people to cultivate a bit of Anthrax for their self protection?

[Seth]

Every attack is a terror attack to the victims. The solution to all such attacks, whether perpetrated for political reasons or social reasons or simply out of insanity is the same: Somebody with a gun needs to be there to try to put a stop to it. The longer it takes for someone with a gun to take action to distract, dissuade or terminate the threat, the more people die.

...or nobody has any guns, and nobody dies.

Except that no one on earth can guarantee that nobody will have a gun, or a knife, or a broken bottle, or a club, or a rock.

Gosh well then why not allow anyone to possess tactical nuclear weapons if they fancy?

How about allowing people to cultivate a bit of Anthrax for their self protection?

Ah, the usual amphigorical resort to ass-clown antics when a hoplophobe runs out of reasoned arguments. How predictable.

[Hermit]

...demonstrates that concealed firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens are a net benefit to society.

Yes, I can see that carrying a gun could sometimes be a good thing in a nation with a greater number of privately owned firearms than the number of its population. Well done, USA.

It's a good thing anywhere on earth. Moreover, absent a violent act requiring armed response, it's harmless.

Comparing homicide and other violent crime rates between the USA and Australia, I prefer the alternative.

[FBM]

This thread has reached 1,000+ posts and is being executed at point-blank range. Someone please start a new one, link here, and I or other staff might eventually remember to return the favor.

Edit: New fred here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 9#p1535372