Questions for a priest.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

So Jesus said to Peter ''before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times'', proving that he knew the future

...or that he knew Peter!

[Seth]

In the multiverse theory of cosmology, each decision point leads to a branching off of a new set of universes where all possible decisions and their outcomes occur.

Thus, he knows if you're going to wank tonight by virtue of the fact that you can wank tonight or you can not wank tonight, which creates two futures in each of which one of the choices occurs, and God sees BOTH outcomes at the same time, thus having knowledge, without actually interfering with or preordaining your free will to make the decision.

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Sure you do. You can wank or not wank. Just because there are consequences for both doesn't mean you don't have free will to choose, it just means that your path divides based upon your decision.

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You don't understand your own posts. At the top, you are theorising that ALL choices occur.
Below, you're talking about one path, wank or not wank.
To be consistent, in your multiverse, the choice is wank, AND not wank. ie, not a choice at all.
Both choices are pre-ordained if all possible decisions and their outcomes occur.

"Pre-ordained" assumes that some directive force has determined the outcome in some deliberate manner. That's not what happens in a multiverse. "You", which is to say the individual who is faced with a choice, are still free to make that choice. Upon making that choice universes divide and a new "you" follows the other path. No agency requires that you make the choice or determines which choice you will make. Therefore, nothing is pre-ordained and you have free will. Your exercise of that free will does, however, have the consequence of the generation of another alternate universe in which a different "you" experiences different consequences of that decision.

So Jesus said to Peter ''before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times'', proving that he knew the future, and that Peter had no free will.

If you believe the bible.

He may have been referring to only one of many possible futures. In another future Peter didn't and Jesus did something else and the bible says something else.

[mistermack]

So Jesus said to Peter ''before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times'', proving that he knew the future, and that Peter had no free will.

If you believe the bible.

He may have been referring to only one of many possible futures. In another future Peter didn't and Jesus did something else and the bible says something else.

You still can't get your head around your own theory. It's not ''possible'' futures, according to your theory.
It's certain futures. You keep contradicting your own posts.

And if in another future Peter didn't, then in that case, Jesus got it wrong. Not very godlike.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

So Jesus said to Peter ''before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times'', proving that he knew the future, and that Peter had no free will.

If you believe the bible.

He may have been referring to only one of many possible futures. In another future Peter didn't and Jesus did something else and the bible says something else.

You still can't get your head around your own theory. It's not ''possible'' futures, according to your theory.
It's certain futures. You keep contradicting your own posts.

And if in another future Peter didn't, then in that case, Jesus got it wrong. Not very godlike.

Or maybe the whole scenario never happened and it was all invented by someone that wrote down a bunch of garbled, oral legends a couple of hundred years after they were supposed to have happened. Nah! That's just too far-fetched compared to a god that dwells in all possible multiverses at once...

[mistermack]

Or maybe the whole scenario never happened and it was all invented by someone that wrote down a bunch of garbled, oral legends a couple of hundred years after they were supposed to have happened. Nah! That's just too far-fetched compared to a god that dwells in all possible multiverses at once...

Yeh, it's a bit telling that even Seth needs the most extreme of multiverse theories to try to defend the god concept.
And a bollocks version of it, to boot.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Or maybe the whole scenario never happened and it was all invented by someone that wrote down a bunch of garbled, oral legends a couple of hundred years after they were supposed to have happened. Nah! That's just too far-fetched compared to a god that dwells in all possible multiverses at once...

Yeh, it's a bit telling that even Seth needs the most extreme of multiverse theories to try to defend the god concept.
And a bollocks version of it, to boot.

One could almost say, a total misunderstanding of it. But, of course, I would not go that far...

[Seth]

So Jesus said to Peter ''before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times'', proving that he knew the future, and that Peter had no free will.

If you believe the bible.

He may have been referring to only one of many possible futures. In another future Peter didn't and Jesus did something else and the bible says something else.

You still can't get your head around your own theory. It's not ''possible'' futures, according to your theory.
It's certain futures. You keep contradicting your own posts.

And if in another future Peter didn't, then in that case, Jesus got it wrong. Not very godlike.

It's possible futures to you. The question is not whether all possible futures will occur, it's which of those futures you choose through an exercise of your free will.

If you are in a labyrinth with three doors before you, each of which leads to a certain outcome, you are still free to choose which door to go through, or choose not to go through any of the three. That the outcome of each choice may also be inevitable is completely irrelevant to the question of whether you have free will or not. Free will does not mean that you have the power to determine the outcome of your choice and that any constraint on that ability denies your free will. Free will is relative, you see. It's relative to your perceptions of the choices available to you, and nothing else. Pre-destination says that you do not have any choices but are inevitably doomed to follow a single, pre-determined course through life. That's not the case with the multiverse theory. In the multiverse theory you not only have free will to choose, you have literally infinite choices you can make, each of which comes with different outcomes.

Who said Jesus was God? Not me. He certainly could have gotten it wrong, being just a man, also according to Christian orthodoxy.

[Seth]

So Jesus said to Peter ''before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times'', proving that he knew the future, and that Peter had no free will.

If you believe the bible.

He may have been referring to only one of many possible futures. In another future Peter didn't and Jesus did something else and the bible says something else.

You still can't get your head around your own theory. It's not ''possible'' futures, according to your theory.
It's certain futures. You keep contradicting your own posts.

And if in another future Peter didn't, then in that case, Jesus got it wrong. Not very godlike.

Or maybe the whole scenario never happened and it was all invented by someone that wrote down a bunch of garbled, oral legends a couple of hundred years after they were supposed to have happened. Nah! That's just too far-fetched compared to a god that dwells in all possible multiverses at once...

It's not at all unlikely that what you claim occurred. But that's beside the point.

[Seth]

Or maybe the whole scenario never happened and it was all invented by someone that wrote down a bunch of garbled, oral legends a couple of hundred years after they were supposed to have happened. Nah! That's just too far-fetched compared to a god that dwells in all possible multiverses at once...

Yeh, it's a bit telling that even Seth needs the most extreme of multiverse theories to try to defend the god concept.
And a bollocks version of it, to boot.

I'm not defending the god concept, I'm refuting your illogic and unreason with reason and logic with respect to your claim that the biblical nature of the Christian God denies the existence of free will. I have demonstrated that this is not necessarily so, thus refuting your claim.

[mistermack]

I just got a message from another universe.
The same identical Seth just agreed that I was right and there was no such thing as free will if there is a god, in one of the multiverses.



Shame we're stuck with the

[Seth]

I just got a message from another universe.
The same identical Seth just agreed that I was right and there was no such thing as free will if there is a god, in one of the multiverses.



Shame we're stuck with the

I see you concede that you've lost the debate. Thanks. Better luck next time.

[mistermack]

I just got a message from another universe.
The same identical Seth just agreed that I was right and there was no such thing as free will if there is a god, in one of the multiverses.



Shame we're stuck with the

I see you concede that you've lost the debate. Thanks. Better luck next time.

You can never expect to ''win'' a debate with a troll. They are their own referees.

I just like to see how stupid your twists and turns can become.
This was a good one.

[Seth]

I just got a message from another universe.
The same identical Seth just agreed that I was right and there was no such thing as free will if there is a god, in one of the multiverses.



Shame we're stuck with the

I see you concede that you've lost the debate. Thanks. Better luck next time.

You can never expect to ''win'' a debate with a troll. They are their own referees.

I just like to see how stupid your twists and turns can become.
This was a good one.

Poor attempt. You still lose.

[mistermack]

Poor attempt. You still lose.

[jamest]

If you want, I'll pretend to be the priest.