Lucifer

[Яasputin]

Lucifer aka Satan is often described by religion (moreso the Judeo-Christian Muslim concept of religion) as the cause of all that is evil whereas Jehovah aka God is said to encompass all that is good and just. Though the way I see it Lucifer (light-bearer) only rebelled against Jehovah because he saw that what Jehovah was doing to be wrong and therefore decided to take action. Many would say that Lucifer rebelled out of pride and jealousy of Jehovah but of course they would say that because he was going against the being that they deem almighty and gracious. We all know about the atrocities Jehovah has commited in order to fulfill "his plan" but what has Lucifer done other then bite the hand that feeds due to what he considered the greater good? Nothing, we hear of Lucifer (Satan) taking the form of a snake and enticing Eve to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge but why is that a bad thing? Encouraging knowledge should be a good thing, sure he tempted them to defy God but it seems to me that he did it so that mankind could have knowledge and seek their own truths rather than blindly believe in the "truths" Jehovah wants mankind to believe in.

Just something I thought of randomly a few days ago, whatta you guys think?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Yep. The guys that dreamt up that bible book didn't know much about creating believable characters.

[Яasputin]

Or about making their main bad guy more evil than their main good guy...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Actually, in Hebrew mythology (basically the OT + a few other bits) Satan was merely an agent of gawd that got to do all of the dirty stuff - a sort of heavenly 007. It was only when good old jeebus came along with his message of love and peace and eternal damnation in the fires of hell for anyone that disagrees that Santa became an embodiment of all that is evil and against good fashion sense.

[Thinking Aloud]

As an aside, am I right in thinking that "Lucifer" as a name only actually appears once in the Bible, and that there's a hypothesis that it's actually the name of some King or other of the day, who has been wrongly contextualised? Seems odd that the big enemy would be called "bearer of light" doesn't it...?

Maybe I'll look it up...

[Chinaski]

Lucifer was an old Roman god, as far as I know. Worshiped as the bearer of knowledge or something.

As far as Satanism goes I'll stick to LaVey.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Actually, in Hebrew mythology (basically the OT + a few other bits) Satan was merely an agent of gawd that got to do all of the dirty stuff - a sort of heavenly 007. It was only when good old jeebus came along with his message of love and peace and eternal damnation in the fires of hell for anyone that disagrees that Santa became an embodiment of all that is evil and against good fashion sense.

Fruedian? We'll never know.

Anyway, one of my favorite challenges to believers is: How do you know God won the War in Heaven? If Satan won he'd say the same thing about God now. So the being you worship might have originally be the Prince of Darkness (and may still be.) They usually walk off mumbling about then. (Well, most people do that anyway. )

[Trolldor]

The OT never mentions Satan as the Serpent, and in the story of Job he is just another angel, essentially he serves as a provocateur to God who is all too easily provoked.
The most important story to me is Genesis - it highlights everything that religion represents.
Adam and Eve are thrown for eating the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil - the ability to decide for themselves what is right and wrong, rather than submit to God's will and dictatorial decrees.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

...that Santa became an embodiment of all that is evil and against good fashion sense.

...

Quite right. Santa is the embodiment of consumerist capitalism.

i.e. evil.

[Hermit]

Lucifer is derived from the Latin words lux (light) and ferre (carry), which makes him 'the bringer of light', a metaphor for knowledge. He was kicked out from the seraphic (excuse me for briefly chuckling in a devilish manner) ranks of angels for tempting Adam and Eve to sample from the tree of knowledge.

Lucifer's life and fate parallels that of Prometheus, who brought fire to protohumans and taught them how to use it. His boss, Zeus, had him chained to a rocky mountain top for that, where an eagle would fly on to him once every thousand years to pick a tiny piece of liver out of him.

It won't surprise me to hear that many similar legends exist around the world. James George Frazer's The Golden Bough would probably list them all, but I can't be bothered looking them up. What those fables do seem to have in common is to explain the concept of being human in a protoscientific way: That to become a self aware human being necessarily involves both the capacity to gain knowledge and experience a range of unpleasantnesses that animals are incapable of. The cunt that inflicted both of these novel capacities on us got his arse kicked for it by the Big Daddy of Everything.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

His boss, Zeus, had him chained to a rocky mountain top for that, where an eagle would fly on to him once every thousand years to pick a tiny piece of liver out of him.

One of the versions I'm familiar with is that he grew a new liver every night and vultures tore it out every day. Messier, that.

[tattuchu]

I always thought Lucifer was a beautiful name. If I ever have a son, that's what I'll name him. "Light-bringer." That is beautiful. I've also seem him referred to as Morningstar.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I always thought Lucifer was a beautiful name. If I ever have a son, that's what I'll name him. "Light-bringer." That is beautiful. I've also seem him referred to as Morningstar.

[tattuchu]

I always thought Lucifer was a beautiful name. If I ever have a son, that's what I'll name him. "Light-bringer." That is beautiful. I've also seem him referred to as Morningstar.

What on earth? Gawd, any idea what that is or what it's from?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I always thought Lucifer was a beautiful name. If I ever have a son, that's what I'll name him. "Light-bringer." That is beautiful. I've also seem him referred to as Morningstar.

What on earth? Gawd, any idea what that is or what it's from?

Source.