Why does sexism persist in the video games industry?

[Forty Two]

Yes, and you compared apparent sexism in video games to this, doofus. You are implying that it isn't really a problem.

Implying? No. Saying. I'm SAYING it's not really a problem. Because, well, it isn't. The fact that people make video games with or without female leads is not a problem. Nobody is stopping anyone from making any video game they want, and if people want a different video game, then if someone makes that different game it will sell like hotcakes.

The reality is that women don't want to play games like Grand Theft Auto, generally speaking, as the demographic of players in that realm and first person shooter games tend to be male. If there is an untapped market for female character games of that sort, then someone can make a fortune tapping into it.

Anita Sarkeesian is a prime example of the folks who bitch and complain about the content of video games, but then she admits that she doesn't even want to play those kind of games because shooting people and blowing people's heads off is "gross."

[pErvinalia]

You are debating like Seth. Go back and read what you previously wrote. When I said you were saying it was "acceptable" that this occurred, you said "no", that's a different question. But here you are at the end of the to and fro (where you tried to say you didn't compare it to anything when you did exactly that) saying that it's not a problem (i.e. it's acceptable).

The point I was trying to make to you is that if this bias is due to socially constructed gender roles (which you seem to agree), then it's not "complaining" to say that this is a manufactured state of affairs. It's a valid point and any action to address this is perfectly valid.

[JimC]

It's a bit polarised here. The fact that adult men and women make different choices about relatively unimportant things like fashion or computer games should not become an issue for feminists, other than the obsessive ones, to worry about. The important point is to have a society where it is perfectly acceptable to go against the majority trend without raising too many eyebrows. In these areas, most western societies have achieved that to a fair degree - no one worries about women who wear suits, or like playing violent video games, and blokes are more able than in the past to do stuff like being house husbands etc. Certainly these freedoms do not exist to nearly the same extent in most of the muslim world, for example...

However, where there is real and often insidious pressure on children, the issue of sexism and conditioned gender roles is still worth discussing. There are still plenty of girls that would never be given toy trucks, and boys who are never given dolls, long before they have a clear preference either way (probably less now than in the past, to be fair...).

[Hermit]

However, where there is real and often insidious pressure on children, the issue of sexism and conditioned gender roles is still worth discussing. There are still plenty of girls that would never be given toy trucks, and boys who are never given dolls, long before they have a clear preference either way (probably less now than in the past, to be fair...).

Cue "Boys instinctively prefer to play with atom bombs and girls with baby feeding bottles before being exposed to social conditioning. I know this because that's what my nephew and my niece did."

[tuco]

I already explained that a) something is a problem IF <insert group> considers that something as problem b) how big problem something is is determined how much room society gives it. a) is beyond our individual control while b) is not.

Now what is the problem here? What "truth" are we looking for here? I do not get it. Some people are vehemently vocal about something, other people vehemently disagree and yet another people do not give much fuck. Normal state of society. What is the problem?

[pErvinalia]

I've got no idea what you are asking.

[tuco]

What are you debating? What do you want to know? What are you looking for?

[pErvinalia]

I'll have a crack, though.

Negative gender roles are reenforced by toys and games and other parts of popular culture. This is a problem if you agree that boys are encouraged by culture to *be* something (like a builder, or a fireman, or a doctor etc) and girls are encouraged to *look like* something (i.e. Barbie guff).

[tuco]

Not sure why "negative" but yes that seems to close to reality. Kids have their room painted, clothes and toys picked before they are even born. Is this the topic? How we prime our kids to our liking? Because there is very little research on such topic to draw solid conclusions from. Nature vs nurture. Now what? Forty Two seem to be focused on Anita, who is stirring controversy, only stirring it further, which probably make Anita quite happy, to have audience. I do not care about Anita.

[pErvinalia]

Games, toys, movies etc form popular culture. To think nurture plays an insignificant part in the building of a sense of self would be naive.

I (and others) argue it is negative because boys are encouraged to be something whereas girls are encouraged to look a certain way.

[pErvinalia]

Forty Two seem to be focused on Anita, who is stirring controversy, only stirring it further, which probably make Anita quite happy, to have audience. I do not care about Anita.

You were the first one to bring up Anita.

[tuco]

To think is naive. To do is hard.

[tuco]

Forty Two seem to be focused on Anita, who is stirring controversy, only stirring it further, which probably make Anita quite happy, to have audience. I do not care about Anita.

You were the first one to bring up Anita.

To make a point, not to focus on her (arguments). I started here with what I would call qualified lecture on the topic from lets say socially aware game developer. Who says .. 30% of those who play our (AAA) games are females so we try to accommodate them. Then Forty Two disregards this and proceeds to make claims about GTA to which you react etc etc. This is chit-chat, hence my agitation.

[pErvinalia]

Edit: this is in reference to your weird "naive" thing.

[tuco]

Indeed, you are trying to convince Forty Two of something s/he cant apparently be convinced of. I know many people who are comfortable with traditional gender roles. And if they are comfortable, how is that negative? Its negative because .. I think .. you think ok. Tell me what you actually do to influence this alleged problem. That is what I am interested in, that is what matters.