Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

[tattuchu]

either party

There are parties?

I hope there are party hats. Because you can't have a party without party hats!

[Gallstones]

RDF is done, dusted and dead.

It is dead.

Internet compost.

Dead.

[Gallstones]

Charlou, Rachel wrote "many of us met through RDF". AFAIK, that is a fact. I know I have seen posts by at least 20 different current or historic ratz on RDF (cautious estimate), and 20 does amply qualify as "many".

I respect your aversion for being included into a group that you have not selected yourself, your aversion for being spoken "for" and your right to protest if such inclusion or speaking "for" happens, but not all statements that contain the word "many" and/or "us" are statements of such inclusion or speaking "for" others.

Most of us agree with this but we all share Charlou's concerns.

No we don't.

[Robert_S]

Josh, why are you even bothering here?

What good will do you think you can possibly gain? Seriously!

Since Josh didn't create this thread, the thread is "Dawkins sues Josh Timonen" and Josh is being talked about I think it's fair that he does comment, on this thread, posting updates on the case in which "Dawkins sues Josh Timonen". I don't think he get's any thing from this personally, it's clear you guys have an irrational hate of him. Maybe he's naive in thinking people give a shit about the truth and evidence.

I don't know that anyone cares much about the legal whatsits concerning the case except as an exercise in schadenfreude and speculation, if anyone's not bored of that yet. You could start by morally justifying the amount of money you got from the store as a legitimate and reasonable compensation.

How about the agreement that Dawkins had with Josh? Do you care about that? That's the thing in dispute here.

As far as I can surmise, the arrangement was too vaguely defined to be properly called an agreement. I'd bet there were too many unspoken assumptions on the part of both parties.

You could also apologize to all those who were summarily booted off the RDF forum.

Jesus H Christ...

Was it necessary to permanently interrupt thousands of conversations on zero notice? Would it have led to worldwide famine to let the forum stay up while everyone adjusted to the fact that changes were coming? Some of us loved that forum, the same as we might love our favorite pub or café. We made friends there. Cutting off that connection that way was just plain rude and the reasons given do not justify that kind of rudeness.

...and the rickrolling, the slowing down of PMs to a crawl, the deception that led to that one post by Richard, your disrespect for the volunteer efforts of the moderators, the deletion of whole accounts...

Not wanting to derail this thread...

Please accept my deepest apologies for rickrolling a curl command line client, or more specifically inorganic traffic. That was me not Josh. Josh didn't tell me to do it either. Shock horror! Neither Josh or I were the sole source of the "disrespect for the volunteer efforts of the moderators, the deletion of whole accounts"...If people wanted to "volunteer" for Richard's PERSONAL website that's fine, but they weren't doing it for a "cause" they were doing it for Richard. If someone wanted to moderate a Z-list celeb forum believing it was for cause of reason and science and not being taken for a ride that's their prerogative! If they have any misunderstandings about that all they needed to do was look at the banner at the top of the website - it's still there on http://forum.richarddawkins.net.

Any how Richard issued the apology, taking PERSONAL responsibility for the whole team, since it was his PERSONAL website at the time, where the forum resided. There was no apology on the then Foundation site.

Just a tad more background; the idea of the closure was that RichardDawkins.net was going to transition to RDFRS's US site. The ideas of having "camel toe" threads wasn't palatable to Foundation management. So the forum in it's current state had to go before the transition.

I think we all need to remember we don't really know the full facts behind every story. And Robert_S, I think you'll have to be content that you don't know the full facts behind the whole forum thing, and that you may never will. Before you start demanding apologies or "moral justifications" I would please ask you to refrain until you are justified in making such demands.

When I said "moral justification" I meant: Did the amount of compensation he received from the store the vastly exceed the worth of the amount of time and effort spent by Josh or not. Or, put another way, would the people who bought things from the store in order to help the cause be comfortable that their funds were put to good use if they could see how much Josh made and what came of Josh's efforts?

By the way, I am not demanding anything really. I am trying to give Josh some suggestions and I am operating under the provisional assumption that you two posting here is an effort to defend Josh's reputation.

It seems that you've made the error, that others have done, attributing actions to Josh, that he didn't do. You've probably listened to the first bit of information and accepted it as gospel. Don't worry a lot of the human race does this, you're not alone.

I am sorry had forgotten you were a part of all that but I vaguely recall being informed that you that you did have a hand in that. Matter of fact, I almost forgot you existed. I have largely forgotten a lot of that mess, but my forgiveness would be harder to come by in this case. I suspect I'm not the only one.

[Don't Panic]

Not wanting to derail this thread...

You really don't know us.

[lordpasternack]

I think this is all one great big fucking mess, and Richard would have done far better to try to embrace me rather than trying to filter me out - but I WOULD say that, wouldn't I?

[Robert_S]

If it was sarcasm, or any other kind of irony, then it flew way over my head...

Incidentally, today when I went to the chemist to buy two 12-packs of condoms and a good sized bottle of lube, the lady at the counter started going through a rote-learned sales pitch as she rung my order through, of telling me there was a £5 off voucher for facials included with my receipt. She at least had the presence of mind to stammer awkwardly and try to rephrase that as she handed my goods over to me... I just wish I had the presence of mind to tell her thanks, but I can get them for free, and I prefer pearl necklaces, anyway...

Sorry, I just thought that might go down well with the talk of how all that talk of camel toe is jeopardising the PR of the cause of rationalism, and just thought I'd say it because I can - because this is Rationalia. Fuck yeah.

And the prize for the best post in 48 pages of the thread goes to lp!

[Pappa]

I think this is all one great big fucking mess, and Richard would have done far better to try to embrace fuck me rather than trying to filter me out - but I WOULD say that, wouldn't I?

[lordpasternack]

I think this is all one great big fucking mess, and Richard would have done far better to try to embrace fuck me rather than trying to filter me out - but I WOULD say that, wouldn't I?

At the rate things are going, if he ever approaches me in a lift for coffee, I may find myself giving him a quote.

[Brian Peacock]

Don't forget to include VAT.

[Pappa]

I think this is all one great big fucking mess, and Richard would have done far better to try to embrace fuck me rather than trying to filter me out - but I WOULD say that, wouldn't I?

At the rate things are going, if he ever approaches me in a lift for coffee, I may find myself giving him a quote.

Unlikely... you'll probably have your mouth full.

[lordpasternack]

I think this is all one great big fucking mess, and Richard would have done far better to try to embrace fuck me rather than trying to filter me out - but I WOULD say that, wouldn't I?

At the rate things are going, if he ever approaches me in a lift for coffee, I may find myself giving him a quote.

Unlikely... you'll probably have your mouth full.

Well, okay... I'd send him the invoice...

[Pappa]

I think this is all one great big fucking mess, and Richard would have done far better to try to embrace fuck me rather than trying to filter me out - but I WOULD say that, wouldn't I?

At the rate things are going, if he ever approaches me in a lift for coffee, I may find myself giving him a quote.

Unlikely... you'll probably have your mouth full.

Well, okay... I'd send him the invoice...

Anyway... you got the story backwards. It would certainly be you approaching him in the lift.

[Geoff]

Well, okay... I'd send him the invoice...

Anyway... you got the story backwards. It would certainly be you approaching him in the lift.

He'd recognise you...and wouldn't get in the same lift!

[lordpasternack]

Anyway... you got the story backwards. It would certainly be you approaching him in the lift.

That's just not true. How many out of those I've fucked have I been the one to do the actual propositioning?

Granted, I was drunk during some of those encounters and probably can't remember exactly who started what - but even my sole proper girl-on-girl experience came from her approaching me via her boyfriend.