Perplexing evolutionary notion

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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by Psi Wavefunction » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:46 am

It's not either/or. It's always both. And NOBODY rejects the importance of selection. All the "forces" (selection, recombination, drift, mutation) act in tandem. Just different ones emphasised in different situations. What I do reject though is the notion that selection is the sole force responsible for 'useful' features. Dawkins is horrible for that – he accepts drift happens, but pushes it away as something invisible, "of interest only to molecular biologists" (hey, what do you know, Mr.Haven't-Actually-Been-in-the-Field-for-30-Years?). Additionally, nor is selection the only component responsible for direction – mutational bias is a strong participant in that.

I stay away from large multicellular features because we have no idea how they work. Ok, maybe some idea, but the state of the field is pathetic. Evo-devo has great potential, but the developmental biologists (eg. Sean Carroll), while being good at developmental biology, fail to comprehend evolutionary biology. The evolutionary biologists, on the other hand, don't seem to get development or how genes work. In any case, it's big and complicated and desperately needs several major paradigm shifts before we get anywhere, so I focus on cellular and molecular features. And I have stories to tell.

Take the eukaryotic genome, for example. As Mike Lynch put it: "The epitome of un-intelligent design". Many an adaptive excuse have been proposed for introns, for example. "They allow greater flexibility in genetic [exon] shuffling, allowing complexity" etc. Problem is, complexity is not evolution's "goal". It does not strive there. Increase in complexity is a by-product. And it is not necessarily adaptive. Same thing with introns: bacteria get away with extremely streamlined small genomes (and are wildly successful at the same time, much more so than eukaryotes); furthermore, the few introns bacteria have are self-splicing, meaning they politely remove themselves immediately after transcription, through RNA enzymatic activity – thus suggestive of their role as genetic parasites. Basically, spliceosomes were a bit of an afterthought – I don't have space to go into the story here, but feel free to ask ;) – and the eukaryotic introns lost their self-splicing ability – and exploded. All over the genome. Presumably before the last eukaryotic cenancestor.

So what promoted this sudden explosion of introns? One major factor that changed during the switch from prokaryotic to eukaryotic domains was a dramatic reduction in effective population size. Why does this matter? Drift is weaker in larger populations, and thus selection is more dominant there (in bacteria). The idea is that unicellular eukaryotes have a much smaller effective population sizer and thus notably less selective force acting on their genomes, letting loose intron multiplication (result of mutational bias, essentially – in the form of transposition, duplications, etc – and there ARE documented cases of recent de novo intron formation...). Introns are slightly deleterious (but mostly neutral), so loosen selection a little and they go crazy. Curiously, organisms where there has been a strong selection against large genome sizes, like intracellular parasites (eg. microsporidia), have reduced their intron populations to a tiny handful (and some of those may have been exapted to essential functions). I think one species, Encephalitozoon cuniculi, has something like 17 introns IIRC. Nucleomorphs - relict highly-reduced eukaryotic nuclei of secondary plastid symbionts) also have a highly reduced intron count, just like the microsporidia. Thus suggests selection doesn't really like them too much, but tolerates them when its weakened by small effective population size.

See, isn't this so much richer than "oh, introns are there because they must be good for something...oh, they enable more gene variety/novelty, which is good, because then eventually it made us! =D" ?

For a nice summary by someone who gets this stuff much better than I do, I strongly recommend M Lynch 2007 PNAS "The frailty of adaptive hypotheses for the origins of organismal complexity", with an accompanying colloquium talk here: http://sackler.nasmediaonline.org/2006/ ... lynch.html (I like this guy: he bridges population genetics and molecular genetics/genomics, and soon, cellular biology – topics that are apparently forbidden to ever meet by some non-existent law somewhere...) I'd like to know what you think ;) I also have a bit of a series on my blog: http://skepticwonder.fieldofscience.com ... 0evolution start with part I. Am also in the process of writing Mike Lynch's seminar talk from a couple weeks ago...

The problem with the adaptationist program (sensu Gould & Lewontin 1979) is that anyone can make a story to explain anything. Any story sounds great. Those kinds of stories are, for the most part, untestable – and therefore not science. This gives people the impression evolution is a simple storytelling exercise, and that anyone can do it given an ability to explain why something would be good. At that point, these hypotheses are not even wrong – the very framework is flawed. Evolutionary biology IS an experimental science – we can make predictions and test them out, especially in the realm of evolutionary mechanisms. While the path of evolution is important (and quite scientific – see the complexity of modern phylogenetic techniques!), the process is also essential to the complete theory. People seem to think the process stopped being developed since Darwin – I beg to differ. Eg., you can experimentally test effects of bare drift (without selection) through so-called 'mutation accumulation' experiments, where a single member of a selfing population are picked at random, allowed to generate a large-ish population and picked again, etc for 50 generations. Effects are dramatic, and interestingly, percolate even to the behavioural and morphological levels (this was done in several model systems, the more striking results in the nematode C.elegans). This, in my view, is real evolutionary science. (selection can be measured too)

It takes great discipline to do good theory in evolutionary biology. Sad to say, most people lack it. Especially science writers.

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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by SevenOfNine » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:47 am

Because of sexual conflict, I would also mention sexual selection, which may actually decrease the fitness of the other sex. Migration affects evolution too, because of isolation, secondary contact.
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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by Psi Wavefunction » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:55 am

Sexual selection is a secondary phenomenon (basically a runaway selection process based on sexual dimorphism), not a fundamental 'force'...

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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by JimC » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:11 am

Psi Wavefunction wrote:Sexual selection is a secondary phenomenon (basically a runaway selection process based on sexual dimorphism), not a fundamental 'force'...
Agreed, but as a somewhat distinct sub-set of selection in general it has been responsible for some rather interesting phenotypes... ;)
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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by Shirakawasuna » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:15 pm

I hope it's not unwelcome if I try to do some explaining re: the original topic! I need some practice on my 'splaining skills.

The phenotype of an organism is determined by its genotype (gene complement) and the environment. Essentially, it's everything you can poke and prod in the organism (proteins, sugars, lipids, combinations of these, etc). Natural selection acts on the phenotype through differential survival: the things you can poke and prod in the organism determine its chances of surviving. For example, bacteria which can produce a protein that breaks down an antibiotic (which is an element of the phenotype) will survive in the presence of that antibiotic and go on to make more of itself, while those which don't produce the protein (another phenotype) will die. The presence of the antibiotic resistance gene determined those phenotypes, but the actual process of selection was on the phenotypes produced (antibiotic resistant/not resistant). In the presence of that antibiotic, you would expect the relative number of bacteria possessing the antibiotic resistance-associated gene to increase, an example of evolution (allele frequency change) due to natural selection (differential survival due to inherited phenotypes).

Another example is the situation where a gene produces a small part of a process or phenotype (like digesting a certain sugar). Obviously this gene is not the sole determinant of the phenotype, as it's just part of a larger process involving many other genes, so a selection 'for' or 'against' the trait could act on any one of the genes controlling the process. You could probably get the same phenotype (inability to digest the sugar) by knocking out just one of the many genes in the process, for example. As a result, a selective pressure 'for' or 'against' the trait could affect one (or more) of many genes, as the pressure acts on the phenotype, not genotype.

I hope I haven't been too long-winded or confusing. This is a tough topic to discuss without blurring over details (which I did) or bringing up too many examples.

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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by FBM » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:29 pm

Well, welcome, Shirakawasuna! Your explanation was perfectly lucid. (Have you considered medication for that?) :tup:
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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by JimC » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:56 pm

FBM wrote:Well, welcome, Shirakawasuna! Your explanation was perfectly lucid. (Have you considered medication for that?) :tup:
Absolutely a fine explanation. We may add that there are alterations in genotypes which are neutral, in that they may alter the amino acid order in a given protein without altering its functionality. Such changes in phenotype are invisible to selection, and to a cursory inspection of the organism, but visible to a biochemical analysis of the protein (or the DNA that generated it), and are of great benefit in a wide range of evolutionary studies (and human forensic science...)
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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by GenesForLife » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:43 am

To put it extremely simply, genes produce phenes, phenes can have an impact on surivival of the organism that carries those genes and expresses said phenes, this translates to differential allele frequencies through reproduction and inheritance , and ergo drives evolution.

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Re: Perplexing evolutionary notion

Post by mistermack » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:55 am

GenesForLife wrote:To put it extremely simply, genes produce phenes, phenes can have an impact on surivival of the organism that carries those genes and expresses said phenes, this translates to differential allele frequencies through reproduction and inheritance , and ergo drives evolution.
Even more simply, selection acts on phenes, this in turn acts on the genes of a population over time. The genes then produce the next phenes.
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