U.K. is not a synonym of England

[Cormac]

...except that this island (Ireland) has never been, and is not, a British isle. Some people on this island are British, no doubt, but that does not give the island any kind of historical Britishness.

Ah, you're confusing geography with politics. All of these islands are the British Isles... including Ireland. That isn't a position of ownership (never has been), but of geography.

That doesn't fly. Geographical naming IS political.

This is not a British Isle. It never has been - even during 8 centuries of occupation.

[Svartalf]

Anthropology/history.

and describing GB, Ireland, Man, Hebrides, Orkneys, Shetlands et al as a "British Isles" archipelago is where the politics is at.

British is "related to/from Britain". Ireland is neither... or is France "continental british country"? Given our greater proximity to GB and the amount of brits dwelling here... maybe we qualify.

[Red Celt]

That doesn't fly. Geographical naming IS political.

This is not a British Isle. It never has been - even during 8 centuries of occupation.

10 PRINT "Geographically, not politically."
20 GOTO 10

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well, at least this is something we can all agree on.

[tattuchu]

Airstrip 1

Wrong thread, Jesus. This isn't the how-do-you-like-your-pussy-hair thread

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

Oh.

[Pappa]

When do they start building a wall between England and Wales?

They built a dyke 1000 years ago.

[FBM]

Please correct this for stoopid people like me:

England = England.
The U.K. = England + Northern Ireland + Wales + Scotland.
Great Britain = England + all of the above + any other place that they've conquered?

OK, I know this is all wrong and fucked up, but if someone would be so kind as to straighten out those 3 definitions in that simple format, I'd be ever so grateful.

Nearly right, until you got to Great Britain.

Geographically, Great Britain is the greatest (largest) of the British Isles. Politically, that is expanded to include the islands of England, Scotland and Wales. So, Great Britain = England, Scotland and Wales. Great Britain doesn't include Northern Ireland, technically. Sometimes, however, Northern Ireland is included in the shorthand, when someone is using G.B. and U.K interchangeably for the same thing... although it isn't correct.

U.K. includes Northern Ireland.
G.B. excludes Northern Ireland.

Any clearer?

...except that this island (Ireland) has never been, and is not, a British isle. Some people on this island are British, no doubt, but that does not give the island any kind of historical Britishness.

Shit. Just when I thought I had it figured out.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

When do they start building a wall between England and Wales?

They built a dyke 1000 years ago.

But that was a lifestyle, not a choice.

[Cormac]

That doesn't fly. Geographical naming IS political.

This is not a British Isle. It never has been - even during 8 centuries of occupation.

10 PRINT "Geographically, not politically."
20 GOTO 10

10 PRINT "Geography is political."
20 GOTO 10[/quote]

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Geographical boundaries are human constructions with nothing to do with the real world. Political boundaries are a subset of geographical boundaries.

[Red Celt]

That doesn't fly. Geographical naming IS political.

This is not a British Isle. It never has been - even during 8 centuries of occupation.

10 PRINT "Geographically, not politically."
20 GOTO 10

10 PRINT "Geography is political."
20 GOTO 10

[/quote]

Cormac, honestly, you're being overly antagonistic towards a simple fact. I can fully understand the reason for that antagonism, but it is wrongly-placed.

"The earliest written records of Ireland come from classical Greco-Roman geographers. Ptolemy in his Almagest refers to Ireland as Mikra Brettania (Lesser Britain), in contrast to the larger island, which he called Megale Brettania (Great Britain)."

These group of islands, off the Western coast of Europe are called the British Isles. Not because they're all owned, controlled or been the possession of London, but because that's what they're called. The subsequent history of these isles have given Irish people a very understandable reason to reject that label, but facts aren't altered by wishes or opinions. Ireland is one of several British Isles and that would be true even if it hadn't been under the control of invaders from the largest British Isle.

[Svartalf]

and for a secessionist, you seem to be completely british inside your head.

[Red Celt]

and for a secessionist, you seem to be completely british inside your head.

I would have though that my secessionist nature would lend me an obvious air of neutrality over the matter.

The only reason that Great Britain has that name is due to Lesser Britain (Ireland). Much as the reason that the 2 largest islands of the Balearics are called Majorca and Minorca (greater and lesser). To complain about Ireland's existence as a British Isle is to complain about politics, not geography.

Nuff said.

[Svartalf]

As a French and Canadian, I'd expect to be neutral... yet I'm not.
Acculturation can do a lot of things that would not be expected.