Muslim-only Spam

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Wishy-washy, hippy religion is still religion and any acceptance of it by atheists to any degree is tantamount to appeasement. The aims of religions are not peace, love and understanding but secular power and advancing their poisonous doctrines. Nice, friendly islam is a smokescreen behind which the bomb-wielding psychos and fanatical mullahs lurk. Christianity didn't abandon its warlike image and become a 'religion of peace' because it wanted to but through its increasing marginalisation as one after another the cornerstones of its belief structure were shown up as false and unreliable by science and reason.

When I say, "Fuck god," and refer to him as a "bastard", I am not talking about a person. I am referring to an idea. The most dangerous, poisonous, evil, depraved idea to have sprung from the mind of mankind. And no matter how you dress it up in flowers and butterflies, it still smells of the piles of corpses that have propped it up down the ages.

[Chinaski]

If you're nice and loving because of God, and not because of secular, human values, what happens when God is malleable, or worse, ephemeral? Doesn't seem to be a strong basis for altruistic loving. Sure, the result would be nice, but the foundation needs to be strong, or we'll end up back at square one. An excuse for extra-human moralizing is ALWAYS unacceptable, no matter what its purpose.

[klr]

Wishy-washy, hippy religion is still religion and any acceptance of it by atheists to any degree is tantamount to appeasement. The aims of religions are not peace, love and understanding but secular power and advancing their poisonous doctrines. Nice, friendly islam is a smokescreen behind which the bomb-wielding psychos and fanatical mullahs lurk. Christianity didn't abandon its warlike image and become a 'religion of peace' because it wanted to but through its increasing marginalisation as one after another the cornerstones of its belief structure were shown up as false and unreliable by science and reason.

+1

And also because people needed it less, in a world of increasing material wealth and security.

[Hermit]

Wishy-washy, hippy religion is still religion and any acceptance of it by atheists to any degree is tantamount to appeasement.

I was not even suggesting appeasement. I was expressing my preference for wishy-washy, hippie islamism over bomb wielding, suicidal, fanatic islamism in exactly the same way that I prefer today's christianity over the christianity of the crusades, the inquisition, the burners of heretics and witches.

The aims of religions are not peace, love and understanding but secular power and advancing their poisonous doctrines.

Nevertheless, I prefer the somewhat more moderate methods employed in attempting to increase their secular power and advancing their poisonous doctrines, devoid of the sheer brutality that too many muslims approve of today and too many christians practised with great alacrity in the past.

Christianity didn't abandon its warlike image and become a 'religion of peace' because it wanted to but through its increasing marginalisation as one after another the cornerstones of its belief structure were shown up as false and unreliable by science and reason.

Without wishing to devalue science and reason I think that they had less impact than economic developments from which particular social and political changes arose. From this angle ideas (including the open letter) might be regarded as no more than an epiphenomenon, except for the fact that ideas themselves can have real effects.


In the last analysis it comes down to this for me: While religions exist, I prefer the wishy-washy to the murderous varieties. That is all I am saying in the context of the open letter.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

In the last analysis it comes down to this for me: While religions exist, I prefer the wishy-washy to the murderous varieties. That is all I am saying in the context of the open letter.

And I am saying that they are one and the same. Two sides of the same coin. The existence of religion leads inevitably to both.

You only have to look at Fred Phelps to see that 'today's christianity' has its share of nutters as well. Or try setting up an atheist bookstore in rural Texas and see how much brotherly love you are shown. The only thing that has changed in the case of xtianity is the reduction in secular power. Islam has oppressive, theocratic regimes because it can. Christianity can't - because it lost its absolute authority - whether that was through science or through economics and social change is irrelevant, as the two advanced hand-in-hand.

[Thinking Aloud]

Glad I posted this!

[charlou]

So am I. Thanks, TA.

[owtth]

"Dear Muslim brothers and sisters" it says whilst completely ignoring the fact that those sisters are second class citizens. Peace with our enemies, by which he means male enemies, don't harm civilians, by which he means male civilians. Brothers and sisters? Let's have the brothers do the donkey work for a year or two first.

Some crap book had a line about getting your own house in order.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

...bringing bad name to Mohammed (PBUH) who never killed
anyone in his life time...

Didn't the fucker lead armies?

[klr]

...bringing bad name to Mohammed (PBUH) who never killed
anyone in his life time...

Didn't the fucker lead armies?

Yes, and sanctioned/ordered massacres into the bargain. Maybe he just never killed anybody by his own hand though . Then again, neither did Hitler. "Economical with the truth" comes to mind ...

[Trolldor]

Judaism became peaceful after a long history of violence - pre-Christianity, Christianity started off peacefully and became violent. Islam began with violence during an era of violence, and unlike Xtianity and Judaism, the 'orders' for violence are not consigned to an era or a specific peoples, but rather to something more general. I've no doubt Islam can be a peaceful religion - if they ignore half of their Koran. How likely is that without a rejection of Islam itself?

[Hermit]

I've no doubt Islam can be a peaceful religion - if they ignore half of their Koran.

Well, christianity eventually became less brutal by ignoring pretty much the entire old testament.

[Trolldor]

I've no doubt Islam can be a peaceful religion - if they ignore half of their Koran.

Well, christianity eventually became less brutal by ignoring pretty much the entire old testament.

Christianity took the necessary step of inventing a whole new realm/era/mythology to Judaism. Muslims will have to do precisely the same thing - or, like the Jews, realise their book isn't 100% correct.

[charlou]

If they can get away with it, people will interpret and practice these doctrines how it suits them to, particularly if it means they can manipulate and control whole populations to fit in with their interpretation.

Even with the separation of church and state in Australia, the religious/christian attitudes of most of our pollies influence the decisions they make on our behalf. We're just fortunate that we're living in an era of a relatively watered down, liberal version of christianity, but there are those who still try to impose more conservative christian values onto society.

And pc 'respect' for diversity of faith and cultural traditions in Australia means that religious groups can assert their particular form of control over their members, and worse, their members' children, with little to no interference.

Muslim society seems to cycle between a liberal interpretation of Islam and extremely conservative, patriarchal, dictatorial interpretation of it. The same thing can and does happen with christian societies. Just because we're in 'wishy washy' liberal christian times in Australia now doesn't mean we're not just as subject to returning to more conservative social values if those we elect are so inclined. There's been a push in that direction for some time now with the introduction of religious counselors in our government schools, the filtering of the internet and the prosecution of women who have non-surgical (drug-induced) abortions in Queensland, for example.

[Hermit]

I've no doubt Islam can be a peaceful religion - if they ignore half of their Koran.

Well, christianity eventually became less brutal by ignoring pretty much the entire old testament.

Christianity took the necessary step of inventing a whole new realm/era/mythology to Judaism. Muslims will have to do precisely the same thing - or, like the Jews, realise their book isn't 100% correct.

They'll just pick a different lot of cherries and put a different slant on interpretation, just like everybody else. It amuses me no end that the christians have basically turfed out the entire old testament in favour of "the new covenant" even though their god in their new testament is quoted as saying: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." [Matthew 5:17-18] They even refurbished hell. No longer will angels sort out the wicked from the virtuous and cast the former into fiery furnace where there'll be "wailing and gnashing of teeth."[Matthew 13:49-50] Despite this, and many similar descriptions of hell, the modern version has been reduced to "eternal separation from god." Lovely, huh?

I think you'll find that apart from the general belief in a supernatural creator and the existence of an afterlife, christianity is nothing like it was in the past. Neither in theory nor in practise. Islam is not immune from undergoing similar permutations and metamorphoses.