"Survival of the fittest" disputed

[Pappa]

Surely the survival of the fittest implies that there is competition over the resources in the habitat? If no conflict arises, then obviously other factors will be the main driving force... And where conflicts arise you can be pretty sure that if only one species survives, that species was the fittest. Unless artifical selection intervened, of course.

Darwin was explicit about that when he explained his theory too.

[PsychoSerenity]

Surely it's nothing new to say, when there's space available, species will probably evolve to fill that space - but that doesn't take anything away from the fact, that the best at filling that space, are the ones most likely to survive.

Or is it just saying, throughout time most changes have taken place when a new gap has opened up?

[Robert_S]

Surely the survival of the fittest implies that there is competition over the resources in the habitat? If no conflict arises, then obviously other factors will be the main driving force... And where conflicts arise you can be pretty sure that if only one species survives, that species was the fittest. Unless artifical selection intervened, of course.

Darwin was explicit about that when he explained his theory too.

If I'm not mistaken, Darwin didn't really think to much of the phrase.

[GenesForLife]

Survival of the fittest is such a cliche' , it came from Francis Galton I think, it is just survival of the sufficiently fit.

[hackenslash]

First define fitness.

Already been done. Fitness is defined as an expectation with regard to number of offspring.

The term has always been misleading. It should be 'survival to reproduction of the sufficiently fit, on average'.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Survival of the fittest is such a cliche' , it came from Francis Galton I think, it is just survival of the sufficiently fit.

"fit to survive". Said that.

[leo-rcc]

"Survival of the average" didn't have the same ring to it.

"Survival of the better fitting" perhaps?

[hackenslash]

I always preferred accurate to pithy. YMMV.

[Robert_S]

I always preferred accurate to pithy. YMMV.

But memetic selection does not seem to.

[GenesForLife]

I always preferred accurate to pithy. YMMV.

But memetic selection does not seem to.

Screw that, ta.

[Clinton Huxley]

Survival of the headline-grabbing sound-bite.

Move on, nothing to see.

[kiki5711]

how about "survival of the richest"?

[Clinton Huxley]

how about "survival of the richest"?

Survival of the Ratzest......

[hackenslash]

I always preferred accurate to pithy. YMMV.

But memetic selection does not seem to.

Memes aren't genes, they're analogous and, like all analogies, there are limitations to its applicability.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

how about "survival of the richest"?

That implies Paris Hilton is going to reproduce.