Xamonas Chegwé wrote:The worst of it is not that he is actually bad, but that he is massively overrated. His fans hold him up alongside Dylan as a songwriter. Which is bollocks - he's simply not in that league. He's just very very average.
Springsteen is a much better songwriter than Dylan, I like Dylan, but if anyone is over rated its Bob, not Bruce. Phil Ochs is better than both though. Most importantly, Bruce continues to put out great albums, Dylan hasn't made anything listenable since the fucking 70's.
Whoa there now ... why do we have to judge/rate an artist by their recent/current work? The Zim is pushing 70, and has long since lost the creative spark, like many ageing artists have done. Thanks to smoking zillions of cigarettes, he can hardly even talk any more. But what of that? Very little that Springsteen has ever recorded comes within an asses' roar of Dylan's greatest work - and there is an awful lot of that. And without Dylan, Springsteen (and many other singer-songwriters) might never have made it in the first place.
All IMHO of course.
I don't dislike Dylan, I am a fan of a lot of his pre-80's stuff (WTF is "Saved" ) but, Springsteen is far more consistent and, IMO, has written as many, perhaps more great songs than Dylan. You are correct that, perhaps, without Dylan, there would be no Bruce...but that has little to do with anything. Some people may claim that without Zeppelin a lot of Metal may not exist (I don't agree BTW), Zeppelin still sucks.
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
About me: I have prehensile eyebrows. I speak 9 languages fluently, one of which other people can also speak. When backed into a corner, I fit perfectly - having a right-angled arse.
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:The worst of it is not that he is actually bad, but that he is massively overrated. His fans hold him up alongside Dylan as a songwriter. Which is bollocks - he's simply not in that league. He's just very very average.
Springsteen is a much better songwriter than Dylan, I like Dylan, but if anyone is over rated its Bob, not Bruce. Phil Ochs is better than both though. Most importantly, Bruce continues to put out great albums, Dylan hasn't made anything listenable since the fucking 70's.
Whoa there now ... why do we have to judge/rate an artist by their recent/current work? The Zim is pushing 70, and has long since lost the creative spark, like many ageing artists have done. Thanks to smoking zillions of cigarettes, he can hardly even talk any more. But what of that? Very little that Springsteen has ever recorded comes within an asses' roar of Dylan's greatest work - and there is an awful lot of that. And without Dylan, Springsteen (and many other singer-songwriters) might never have made it in the first place.
All IMHO of course.
I don't dislike Dylan, I am a fan of a lot of his pre-80's stuff (WTF is "Saved" ) but, Springsteen is far more consistent and, IMO, has written as many, perhaps more great songs than Dylan. You are correct that, perhaps, without Dylan, there would be no Bruce...but that has little to do with anything. Some people may claim that without Zeppelin a lot of Metal may not exist (I don't agree BTW), Zeppelin still sucks.
It is... refreshing to see that your grasp of popular music is as... thorough as your handle on politics, Sandy.
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return. Salman Rushdie You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic. House MD Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view. Sandy Denny This is the wrong forum for bluffing Paco Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish! Calilasseia I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants. Twoflower Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse Millefleur
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:The worst of it is not that he is actually bad, but that he is massively overrated. His fans hold him up alongside Dylan as a songwriter. Which is bollocks - he's simply not in that league. He's just very very average.
Springsteen is a much better songwriter than Dylan, I like Dylan, but if anyone is over rated its Bob, not Bruce. Phil Ochs is better than both though. Most importantly, Bruce continues to put out great albums, Dylan hasn't made anything listenable since the fucking 70's.
Whoa there now ... why do we have to judge/rate an artist by their recent/current work? The Zim is pushing 70, and has long since lost the creative spark, like many ageing artists have done. Thanks to smoking zillions of cigarettes, he can hardly even talk any more. But what of that? Very little that Springsteen has ever recorded comes within an asses' roar of Dylan's greatest work - and there is an awful lot of that. And without Dylan, Springsteen (and many other singer-songwriters) might never have made it in the first place.
All IMHO of course.
I don't dislike Dylan, I am a fan of a lot of his pre-80's stuff (WTF is "Saved" ) but, Springsteen is far more consistent and, IMO, has written as many, perhaps more great songs than Dylan. You are correct that, perhaps, without Dylan, there would be no Bruce...but that has little to do with anything. Some people may claim that without Zeppelin a lot of Metal may not exist (I don't agree BTW), Zeppelin still sucks.
It is... refreshing to see that your grasp of popular music is as... thorough as your handle on politics, Sandy.
Yes, because music isn't subjective. ...and like you know better...about music or politics.
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
About me: I have prehensile eyebrows. I speak 9 languages fluently, one of which other people can also speak. When backed into a corner, I fit perfectly - having a right-angled arse.
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return. Salman Rushdie You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic. House MD Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view. Sandy Denny This is the wrong forum for bluffing Paco Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish! Calilasseia I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants. Twoflower Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse Millefleur
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:it's no more subjective than you are patronising.
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
Coito ergo sum wrote:The E Street band didn't work with Jim Steinman. Roy Bittan and Max Weinberg played on the album "Bat Out of Hell,' and Steinmen called Springsteen's work an "inspiration" for Bat Out of Hell, though.
Okay. Some of the E Street band.
So, big deal. They were picked because they're awesome. And, of course, like their contributions to the E Street Band, Weinberg and Bittan helped make one of the most popular records of all time.
I agree with all of that, and it amazes me all the more that they would waste their valuable time and unquestioned talent with a nonentity like Springsteen. He must have been quite a salesman.
The only reason they were known to be awesome is because of their work with Springsteen. So, obviously, Steinman disagrees with you.
And, making excellent records that sell like hotcakes and earn each band member millions of dollars probably factors into it.
Coito ergo sum wrote:The E Street band didn't work with Jim Steinman. Roy Bittan and Max Weinberg played on the album "Bat Out of Hell,' and Steinmen called Springsteen's work an "inspiration" for Bat Out of Hell, though.
Okay. Some of the E Street band.
So, big deal. They were picked because they're awesome. And, of course, like their contributions to the E Street Band, Weinberg and Bittan helped make one of the most popular records of all time.
I agree with all of that, and it amazes me all the more that they would waste their valuable time and unquestioned talent with a nonentity like Springsteen. He must have been quite a salesman.
The only reason they were known to be awesome is because of their work with Springsteen. So, obviously, Steinman disagrees with you.
And, making excellent records that sell like hotcakes and earn each band member millions of dollars probably factors into it.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here. .
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Springsteen is a much better songwriter than Dylan, I like Dylan, but if anyone is over rated its Bob, not Bruce. Phil Ochs is better than both though. Most importantly, Bruce continues to put out great albums, Dylan hasn't made anything listenable since the fucking 70's.
) but, Springsteen is far more consistent and, IMO, has written as many, perhaps more great songs than Dylan. You are correct that, perhaps, without Dylan, there would be no Bruce...but that has little to do with anything. Some people may claim that without Zeppelin a lot of Metal may not exist (I don't agree BTW), Zeppelin still sucks.
...and like you know better...about music or politics. 
